'08 Paul Pierce
Historic / Celtics Throwback Thursday
General information
Theme
Throwback ThursdayAdded
Apr 6th, 2016Height
6'7" (200cm)Weight
235lbs (106kg)Age
31From
KansasNickname
The TruthPlays
Isolation Isolation Point Handoff Post Up Low
96 Overall
96 Outside scoring
- 98 Standing shot mid
- 97 Moving shot mid
- 94 Standing shot 3pt
- 94 Moving shot 3pt
- 98 Shot IQ
- 95 Free throw
- 98 Offensive consistency
85 Inside scoring
- 91 Standing shot close
- 94 Moving shot close
- 98 Standing layup
- 94 Driving layup
- 45 Standing dunk
- 70 Driving dunk
- 55 Contact dunk
- 97 Draw foul
- 82 Post control
- 68 Post hook
- 94 Post fadeaway
- 98 Hands
80 Athleticism
- 79 Speed
- 78 Acceleration
- 70 Vertical
- 84 Strength
- 98 Stamina
- 92 Hustle
- 98 Overall durability
74 Playmaking
- 85 Ball control
- 70 Passing accuracy
- 70 Passing vision
- 80 Passing IQ
86 Defending
- 93 On-ball defense IQ
- 74 Low post defense IQ
- 91 Help defense IQ
- 92 Pick & roll defense IQ
- 91 Lateral quickness
- 85 Pass perception
- 84 Reaction time
- 75 Steal
- 50 Block
- 84 Shot contest
- 90 Defensive consistency
60 Rebounding
- 36 Offensive rebound
- 68 Defensive rebound
- 72 Boxout
- 3649 Total attributesattr.
| Updates | OVR | POS | INS | OUT | PLY | ATH | DEF | REB |
|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
96 | SF PF | 85 | 96 | 74 | 80 | 86 | 60 |
|
96 | SF PF | 85 | 96 | 74 | 80 | 86 | 60 |
Outside Scoring
Unfazed
Can maintain his hot streak throughout timeouts and breaks better than most.
Corner Specialist
Known for his ability to knock down threes from the corner.
Deadeye
Can knock down contested shots better than most.
Fade Ace
Excels at making fadeaway jumpers.
Shot Creator
Known for making tough shots off the dribble after creating space to shoot.Inside Scoring
Acrobat
Can change his shot in air and attempt difficult shots with few consequences.
Screen Outlet
Excels as the screener in the pick & roll game.
Relentless Finisher
A player who can take physical punishment on contact shots near the rim without severely impacting his energy.
Post Stepback Pro
Shines in his ability to use the post stepback move to score in the post.
Post Hook Specialist
Known for his ability to make hook shots from the post at a high percentage.Playmaking
Killer Crossover
Can cause his defender to stumble or fall with crossovers.
Pick & Roll Maestro
Throws accurate passes and knocks down shots off the screen at a high percentage.Athleticism
Bruiser
The physical nature of this player drains energy from his match-up.Defending
Perimeter Lockdown Defender
While playing on-ball defense, this badge drops Outside Shooting and Playmaking badges and offensive attributes of his match-up.
Charge Card
Adept at placing himself in position to win charge calls.
Interceptor
More adept at stealing passes than othersRebounding
Defensive Crasher
An elite offensive rebounder known for his ability to get through and around boxouts.Personality
Alpha Dog
Steps his game up when his teammates are performing poorly.
Prime Time
Elevates his play in games of great significance.
Closer
Steps his game up in the 4th quarter and overtime when the game is close
Spark Plug
Comes off the bench or out of timeouts making big plays that can energise his team.
Mind Games
Can get into opponents head while guarding him.
Championship DNA
Plays at another level in playoff games. Can also see where double teams are coming from.
Mentor
Gets younger players focused in on the game when they commit mistakes.
Heart and Soul
Rallies team when things are getting out of hand. Helps team stay focused.
Hardened
A tough player that will play through fatigue and inury without experiencing a sever drop in skill.
All Time Great
Strives to be known as an all-time great.
Pat My Back
Responds best when coddled.
Expressive
Has no problem expressing his feelingsDunks
- 5 Standing dunk
- 10 Driving dunk
- 45 Flashy dunk
- 15 Alley-oop
- 20 Putback dunk
- 45 Crash
Layups
- 15 Standing layup
- 50 Driving layup
- 40 Spin layup
- 60 Hop step layup
- 55 Euro step layup
- 35 Floater
Jump shooting
- 76 Step through shot
- 35 Shot under basket
- 10 Shot close
- 4 Shot close left
- 3 Shot close middle
- 6 Shot close right
- 20 Shot mid
- 60 Shot 3pt
- 50 Contested jumper
- 90 Stepback jumper
- 45 Spin jumper
- 50 Transition pull up 3pt
- 40 Use glass
Drive setup
- 15 Triple threat pump fake
- 15 Triple threat jab step
- 25 Triple threat idle
- 45 Triple threat shoot
- 60 Setup with sizeup
- 10 Setup with hesitation
- 30 No setup dribble
Driving
- 60 Drive
- 47 Drive right
- 30 Driving crossover
- 50 Driving spin
- 0 Driving step back
- 30 Driving half spin
- 0 Driving double crossover
- 0 Driving behind the back
- 70 Driving dribble hesitation
- 0 Driving in and out
- 99 No driving dribble move
- 60 Attack strong on drive
Freelance
- 79 Shoot
- 70 Touches
- 0 Roll vs. pop
Post game
- 10 Post up
- 30 Post shimmy shot
- 40 Post face up
- 30 Post back down
- 20 Post aggressive backdown
- 8 Shoot from post
- 0 Post hook left
- 0 Post hook right
- 35 Post fade left
- 30 Post fade right
- 35 Post up and under
- 35 Post hop shot
- 35 Post step back shot
- 10 Post drive
- 20 Post spin
- 0 Post drop step
- 18 Post hop step
Passing
- 70 Dish to open man
- 20 Flashy pass
- 5 Alley oop pass
Defense
- 58 Pass interception
- 68 Take charge
- 66 On-ball steal
- 62 Contest shot
- 45 Block shot
- 58 Foul
- 60 Hard foul
Truth review
10, written by AGpag01
Unstoppable
1, written by johnnya33
Diamond Paul Pierce Review
1, written by Random 2k player
When you bust
-2, written by MattTheHooper
So this Came Out...
-7, written by n3rd0fc00k33z
Write a review...
Share your opinion of Paul Pierce
Comments Sort by
33
YOU CAN'T HANDLE THE TRUTH.
3
Literally, if I faced this in RttP I would get roasted
Show 2 replies...19
Wait... if his Dynamic card goes to Bronze...
Paul Pierce will have a card in every color!
96
91
89
78
73
1
Vince Carter will prob get it
Show 2 replies...0
13
7
3
2
I see how a Celtic fan would be hyped about this card but at this point in the game there are just a lot of better options at the diamond tier.
1
Card art is trash. But this is a card I want with a plus 9 speed shoe. He'd be deadly.
1
Hopefully this one is one of the more cheaper ones due to his speed. I got MVP Larry Bird and he is great for me. But, if this guy is cheap enough, I am saying goodbye to Bird. This card just looks way to good too pass up, assuming he is cheap enough.
1
1
What's this card for?
1
70 dunk for one of the only guys to poster lebron
-1
If you're talking about that playoff game where Rondo did that fastbreak behind the back pass to tony allen. That wasn't really a poster.
Show 2 replies...0
Hes talking about when pierce dunked on lebron
0
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0
0
Why is Pierce getting 2 TBT Cards from the same year?
3
2
The other tbt card is for the whole year, this card is just for game 7 of the eastern conference semi finals against the cavs where he destroyed lebron
Show 1 reply...0
he might be released but LD said he did not think it was on the list so it might be someone entirely new
0
0
With speed shoes on he is true monster inside and outside + very good D!
0
0
Im buying this shit, sell mvp kd in 2.5 seconds
0
You aint gonna get diamond Pierce from selling mvp KD
Show 9 replies...0
I have 170,000 currently, I can get at least 50k from my kd since his fully badged, this brings me to 220,000, and I can quick sell to fill the rest. I figure pierce will fall in the 180 to 240 range due to him not being to popular, and his speed, low vert, people just see another slow melo or bird player and most people don't like slow hence why mvp bird is below 200 which I think is a travesty.
0
I also see Pierce going for about what you said. I am also hoping to pick him up. I have MVP Bird and if I can get him open, he is automatic, and he can even shoot right in peoples faces a bit. Makes me sad a bit such a great card isn't really that valued. They should add something like MUT has or FIFA where there is team chemistry or whatever, could make a slower team a more useable option. Where certain players work better in certain systems, could help make slower cards and others more valuable.
0
Yea I had bird only through gauntlet he is just like he was, and I have a few cards to where they aren't exactly the fastest, my Hakeem I had for a long time is insanely slow compared to towns, Dwight, Davis and what not but I try to keep the temp to where I want it, ball movement back door cuts, lots of screens and milk the clock as much as I can so I can frustrate my opponents who like to rush everything.
Make them play your speed sometimes, just have players to surround the slow ones to make up for their speed. Lebron, davis, rose, Oscar, tbt purp kobe(sold him) helped me just fine transitions cheese situations. I agree though some type of team dynamic should be brought in in order to make your players feed off of each other more.
0
Totally, that what I try to do when I play. It is possible now to play with a slower team, but, its like you said, most prefer a fast, shooting type of team. If anything I would want something that would encourage people to use different types of teams, it would make the mode a lot more interesting I feel.
0
The only thing to keep people in this lane is the online challenges, and restricted seeds of course sadly
0
True, the restricted seeds are actually my favorite most of the time, usually restrictions are lifted after about the 5th seed, but I would honestly not have a problem if they extended restrictions until like the 3rd seed.
0
Yea it's not too bad, or just play friendlies with people that are cool to play with and both just make up your own rules, I do it all the time so I play with all rewards or all purps to make the team equal with my friends since I have three diamonds.
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-1
-1
-2
Need some expert advice on my lineup please! http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/123604/grubers-team
-2
i want this card who should i replace?http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/284033/my-lineup
-6
Need suggestion!!!! Any help is appreciated, im just wondering if i should pick up pierce. http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/254164/suggestions
-8
Suggestions on lineup
http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/190183/heir-2-the-thrown
Will win games eventually but getting blown out in 1st quarter. Karl-Anthony Thomas disappointing. Will hit a 3 but acceleration and speed don't match up.
i reported u because that is inappropriate and disrespectful to women. Have u heard of Hilary Clinton. She's a lady who was cheated on and those types of guys r just rude.
- Reply
Show 133 replies...at this point i dont blame my homie Bill for cheating on her.
LOL savage
Words can't describe how much respect was just gained
thanks!
you're welcome!
What kind manners young man!
well that didn't work. here take an updoot for comfort
hi
haha
thanks!
bruh
that was an ironic thanks
no problem!
No problem!
She's a lady who was cheated on
W
W
lololol w
W
W
W
W
Damn
thanks
#tbt on a saturday
mhm
LMAO fucking cringe ass
W
remember this lol
good times
Saaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaame.
i got u to 100 up votes on this comment
ole goofy ass
tbt
is that the most disliked comment in 2kmtc history?
omfg fucking savgage af
I remember when you wrote this comment shake. You were the first person I followed after this
w
w
wut
bump
Vibes
RIP Shake I'm gonna miss you brother
Basically the best 3-comment chain in 2kmtc history
prime 2kmtc
W tbh
W
L for self-W-ing yourself.
W for you TBH! =D
[Deleted]
L
Oh wooooow 70 downvotes....hahahaahha that's your fault. XD
the only bush that belongs in the white house is hilary's
I don't like you.
You talk about being kind to women (respectable) BUT YOU HAVE CALLED A FUCKING MILLION PEOPLE CHODES, YOU HYPOCRITICAL PIECE OF SHIT!
“That escalated quickly.” @STDDRAFT
Holy fuck I love it when people us the word chode
lmfao
Savage, should get banned
Yes
is this the most disliked comment of all time?
Yep
lolz
Hilary Clinton=/=Lady
W
this comment caused trump to be elected, thanks griff.
ya @griffen_hits_em great job.
fuckin degenerate
hisssss
kys
fat
lmaooo
wtf lmao
DAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMN LOOK THOSE DOWNVOTES
wow, 225 downvotes, i think thats a record
look again
lol you came back and disliked everyones comment *crying laughing emoji*
shut your bitch
ass up
New GEICO Commercial:
The most downvotes in 2KMTC History is on a feminism based comment, surprising. What's not surprising is that you can save 15% or more on car insurance in just 15 minutes.
How's it surprising
Sarcasm mate
fuck you griff you have more downvotes than me you piece of shit
legendary
Who stickied this lol?
goat meme tbh
I signed in just to down vote this comment
lie
@ianstp sorry looks liek you got dethroned for the most disliked comment on all of 2kmtcentral ;( http://2kmtcentral.com/comments/sort/votes/page/12973
Fuuuuuuuuu
what was the comment
The Rick Barry one
I upvoted lol u were so right
Lol its not on that page anymore... I forgot how to sort by negative votes lol
Yeah, I've heard of her.
plus it's a damn joke let people laugh
Bruh nobody cares besides reports don't do crap
L
It was a joke.
Your mom also kept sucking after I sprayed dat ass
most disliked comment
if you look at the rest of his comments, it seems like he deserves it
still worse than trump
BRO CHILLL.....
Well that just wasn't necessary
hmm
lmao the downvotessssssssssssssssssssssssssss
congrats on the most down voted comment in 2kmtcental history
*best
wow you have 16k comments also i like your name
Didn't need to point out that I have no life lmao & thanks
sorry didn't mean to offend you
Don't worry I've already come to terms w/ reality
thanks for the follow
Anytime brotha
400 DOWNVOTES!
@Shakespeare @ianstp RIP to this mans upvote ratio #TBT
tbh goat comment
the absolute madman
SAVAGE
But still ur top comment is -4 I'm so sorry well not really
i haven't. i HAVE heard of Hillary Clinton tho
vintage comment
This is the most downvoted comment in 2kmtc history, i hope your proud of yourself
Biggest meme right here
It got pinned too lol.
How the fuck does this have 7 upvotes?
I just read all of your comments, and realized ho fucking retarded you are
YOU ARE STUPID POO YOU DON'T EVEN KNOW HOW TO SPELL HOW.
HES BACK
Holy shit
i reported u because that is inappropriate and disrespectful to women. Have u heard of Hilary Clinton. She's a lady who was cheated on and those types of guys r just rude.
lol
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
And your a complete fag who gets sucked off by bill
says the girl who said i ate ur mom last night
I might be a little late to the party but i wanted to compile this list for the people laughing at this to see:
List of Sayings that griffen_hits_em Thinks are Acceptable and Has Personally Said:
1. ur mom rides pretty long hard cock which is mine
2. sucks ass just like ur grandpa eats ur ass
3. ya ur granps eats ur ass then u turn around and he eats ur chode
4. i did ur grandmother in the ear, after i did ur grandpa in the nostril
4. u bust ur nut for ur dad
5. u named the lineup diamond and its not all diamond. What a chode
6. ur a bing bong
7. ur dick gets hard when u see my ear
8. big giant cock in ur ear
9. man tits in ur butt
10. eat my testies
11. ur a dildo
List of Sayings that griffen_hits_em Thinks are Not Acceptable:
1. When you finished but she keep sucking
- Reply
Show 20 replies...Hold this MVP
"What a chode" k
search it on Urban Dictionary lol
def. A penis wider than it is long
ex. My boyfriend wanted a hand-job but i couldn't get a good grip because he had a chode.
Lmfao
[Deleted]
To say that you're the real MVP is an understatement...
appreciate it
Fuck the person that downvoted it, then again, why do I have a feeling that it's 'griffen_hits_em'?
bruh this whole thing funny af
Yeah, true that lmao, @Shakespeare 's reply to him was comedy gold
yeah he's on a different level with that
Exactly haha
Noted
are you jesus or god
or their child?
Funniest comment of all time
wow that is so true omg u just took time out of ur day to look at all my comments thank you
i reported u because that is inappropriate and disrespectful to women. Have u heard of Hilary Clinton. She's a lady who was cheated on and those types of guys r just rude.
Lmao you wanna fight nigga
Up voted this to 69. Perfect
- Reply
Show 14 replies...I downvoted to make it 69
me too1
It's perfect again!
[Deleted]
[Deleted]
What did u comment to get those dislikes
i said "I upvoted to 70" then i said that I was kidding, then people were salty. LMAO
Oh lol
Needs to stay like this
sorry but I had to downvoted to 69
its 68 now
Whoops.
sorry but downvoted back to 69!
Fuck, it's gone now.
I want to up vote this but the 69 up votes can never be disturbed
- Reply
Show 4 replies...Hey guys could you take a look at my lineup?
http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/290873/current-lineup
no
Awwww m8
stop self promoting and go into a lineup forum.
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The TBT sign is censoring his dick, too.
- Reply
Show 1 reply...lol
REST IN PISS
- Reply
Show 1 reply...He died when it was downvoted to perfection, sad
Rain Drop
Drop Top
I would upvote but i wanna keep it at 69 so I will Notnot
- Reply
Show 12 replies...Rain Drop
Drop Top
Go fuck yourself
Rain Drop
Drop Top
Reported
lol @NBA_2K17_FOR_LIFE commented pretty much the exact same thing
not to me he didnt
to someone else idiot
ok im the idiot, at least i dont get mad at someone for a comment in which i have no relation to, and i am not relevant in the situation. Can I ask why ur so mad that i said that?
cause you overused the lyrics of a shitty song. maybe it would've been funnier if it wasn't the eighth time I saw this type of comment today.
Oh, I'm sorry! I didn't mean to hurt your feelings! I can tell you're very sensitive about this type of thing! Overusing lyrics can really hurt people sometimes, I should've known!
Rain Drop
Drop Top
I hurt his feelings I should stop stop
He acts so tough yet he a thot thot thot
Rain Drop
Drop Top
Reported cause you just called me a thot thot
LMAO now he salty, look at the downvote lmao!!!
lmao this comment is pretty funny tho @Daybe
i didnt tho
BRUH
i want to downvote to bring it back to 69 but I can't downvote it it's just to good
w
forever keep this comment at 69 votes
YES ITS BACK TO 69
i made my account when i saw this
It's on 70! @MTIH Downvote it!
- Reply
Show 3 replies...All done sir.
Legend
Thank you.
Who upvoted this to 71
- Reply
Show 1 reply...I got it
s u c c
- Reply
Show 1 reply...n u t t
Why are people upvoting this????? You need to stay at 69.
BTW W for the mod that deleted the Report button off this comment.
- Reply
Show 5 replies...I brought the amount of upvotes on ianstp's comment down to 70, we just need one more downvote on his comment to make it at 69 upvotes and everything will be good ;)
Thanks for your kind donation sir
I never noticed that lmao
Ima downvote it right now lol
Yeah lol
I downvoted to make it 69
Its sad that we have to keep it to 69 bc this comment deserves so many more likes.
Sorry, had to downvote to 69
- Reply
Show 1 reply...Sacrifice I'm willing to make
lma0
yoo what the fuck why does this have 51 more likes than it needs to
this generation of 2kmtcentral is doomed, it is now +15 from 69
why is this no longer at 69 upvotes
- Reply
Show 2 replies...younger generations are fucking idiots
mhm
This is a travesty
WHY THE FUCK IS THIS NOT AT 69 UPVOTES GODDAMN THIS SITE REALLY DID FALL OFF
I will give up on the site when this goes 10 votes below or above 69
- Reply
Show 1 reply...ha
whoever had this at 71 is a extreme idiot, all g tho i got it back to 69 ;)
- Reply
Show 1 reply...Mhm
who the actual fuck upvoted this to not make it 69.
Also 4th most downvoted comment
why
don't people see that this is supposed to be 69?
Keep it at 69 XD
NOOOOOO!!!!!!!!1111!!!!1
We need a downvote
2 more downvotes
SOMEONE PLEASE DOWNVOTE. I ACCIDENTALLY PRESSED UPVOTE
@ianstp
the fact that this has 69 upvotes is not coincidence.
holy shit it's still at 69
holy shit this would be like the third most upvoted comment if no one disliked it
- Reply
Show 1 reply...Fr
how tf is this the 5th most downvoted comment of all time
- Reply
Show 2 replies...To keep it at 69
true true
KEEP IT AT 69!!!
Had to downvote to make it 69
there
- Reply
Show 1 reply...mmmmmmmmmmm
i couldnt up vote cause 69
back to 69
- Reply
Show 1 reply...Relief
DOWN VOTE IT BACK TO 69!!!!!!
Fuck 73 likes :((((
lmfao this is the 4th most downvoted comment on the entire site, yet it has 73 lol
- Reply
Show 2 replies...GOAT comment tbh
ianstp its @griffen_hits_em alts
downvoted to 69 perfect
SOMEONE UPVOTE THIS! it's at 68!!!
- Reply
Show 1 reply...Thats why I upvoted It ;)
ITS PERFECT
WTF WE NEED PEOPLE TO DISLIKE IT NOW
- Reply
Show 1 reply...true
Downvoted back to 69, your welcome
- Reply
Show 4 replies...W
Swag912 put it at 70 upvotes lmao
how do you check?
look below
This deserves way more upvotes. Can we get it to 169?
- Reply
Show 5 replies...Hopefully lmao
yoooo check the stats on that comment, it has 180 upvotes and 111 downvotes
Ino crazy
If everyone who downvoted gives an upvote instead it should go to like 160 instantly lol.
Lol tru
[Deleted]
lolz
LMFAO
@Zane1914 Startin to balance out the dislikes lmao
LMFAOOOOOOO IMMMM DOONEEEEE
we need to leave this comment of 69 votes
i dont understand how comments like these get upvoted so much
- Reply
Show 3 replies...Because they lit
its disgusting
*it's
*lit
i made it 70 upvotes
Back to 69
- Reply
Show 1 reply...What??
nope. i made it 68. wen someone upvotes, imma upvote
- Reply
Show 1 reply...Fack u
I made it 70.
Hey guys could you take a look at my lineup?
http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/290873/current-lineup
- Reply
Show 3 replies...no
no
Nope
that is a really stupid comment, and entirely inappropriate for a public medium, wtf are people thinking nowadays, its not even funny, or english.
- Reply
Show 32 replies...You must be a blast at parties.
He don't get invited to parties.
Comment of the year. Congrats.
Hey guys could you take a look at my lineup?
http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/290873/current-lineup
STFU U ASKED US 50 FUCKIN TIMES
hey guys could you take a look at my lineup
smh
at parties I don't have to worry about my nephew coming along. Its just about respecting people, I am actually a blast at parties, I'm an addict so, sure, I have a good time, but, I know when to put it all away and not be a stupid fucking child.
what does this have to do with your fucking nephew
and lol addict
but its not even funny? like, not in the slightest, if it were, I would have laughed and ignored it.
get off your period kid
Wow addict what a liar
You right, its Siberian
Wow, i got a negative vote because I respect the fact that many children probably visit this site? Thats super kool, All im talking about is being respectful and having manners, but, this is the internet. You probably have it running in your white van with candy painted on the side sitting outside a youth club, lol.
Lmao it wasn't me that disliked it.
Ironic that a sex joke from me is unnacceptable but a pedo joke from you isnt
hey, you set the rules of the conversation, plus mine is vague, you need to read into it, and well, actually read it. I mean I get it your cool and stuff but, who cares? i'm not going to bother you with manners, logic, or respect, peace out kiddo.
Also, I didn't think you voted on me anyway, I assumed it was just another rebellious youth looking for his place in life :).
My god your morale horse is so high I'm surprised you have time for mere mortals such as I
Actually no, no its not, like I said its just about respecting the fact that kids and teens pry come here. I have no "high horse". You probably wont understand my reasoning, but, you could have said thousands of different words being that this is a video game site, and who knows who visits it, but, If you don't have any real input, why say anything at all? Obviously i know its trolling, but, I don't get it.
At its core this was a factual database site for MyTeam. Its becoming much much more then that. Its becoming a community for 2k lovers everywhere, we et members in the US, Ireland, Britain, Spain and Australia, to name a few. Your obviously new around here, but if you want a serious database I suggest looking elsewhere.
lol
W
W
W af
a W 2 years later
Nice life you have, arguing with a moderator about someone making 1 sex joke
Hey you hadn't been to modern middle school yet
What about me?
Hey guys could you take a look at my lineup?
http://2kmtcentral.com/16/lineups/290873/current-lineup
STFU
I actually despise you
Stop asking this