I have said this so many times, The Debate on who is better Bird vs Magic cannot be answered, even in Indiana State vs Michigan State they were Battling each other, First year in the Pros Larry Won ROTY but Magic won the Championship, Second year Bird won The Championship, The Rivalry was so great between these guys and such a Classic that It makes me upset when Someone says Magic was Better or Bird was better because really They were both So Iconic and Had such a Great Rivalry that I always put them Right next to eachother when Discussing my Top 10
Championships are a team accomplishment way more than a players
The goal is to win championship
But if you put Jordan on a team of Nunnally's, then put Nunnally on a team of Jordan's, who's gonna win?
Thats what matters most in the end
Not to an individual players talent level
Yes because u can stat pad all u want but if u dont win who cares
You win because of the team around you (the majority of the time). This especially applies to bill Russell
wow this is a tbt, this was when I was a noob who only made scal jokes, wait sorry about that there not jokes there Facts
and everyone has to "individually" put in a effort lmao but yeah championships are a team effort
KAJ > Shaq tbh
Probably should change it but I don't favor one over the other
KAJ has more everything tbh
Shaq was better in his prime. More of a dominant player.
Terrible. Bill Russell shouldn't be here, Hakeem is way too low. (Kobe over Hakeem? Are you drunk?) And Magic is not 3rd foh
You can't just blatantly ignore bill winning 11 rings. I think it's bullshit that people ignore that. Hakeem proved that he couldn't do it unless jordan was out of the league and he won't 3 less rings than kobe. I think hakeem is a very difficult player to judge because he was second fiddle to jordan forever. Say if hakeem would've played in a different Era I wouldve chosen him over 3 or 4 of these guys
Rings don't fix player flaws
The goal for every team in the nba is to win a championship and bill russell did that more than anyone.
With like 7 other hall of famers
Who r in the hot because they won rings because bill knew how to get it done.
Bill never averaged over 20 pts. I know scoring isn't everything but that's pretty shit compared to other centers
He said himself he could've scored more but he said he didn't need to and I believe him. I think he could've been a 20 20 guy if he wouldve been more selfish
20/20 is ass in the 60s smh
20/20 isn't that impressive considering the pace inflation of that era. I mean he had multiple seasons averaging under 20ppg on less than 45% shooting for a big man...Russell is one of the most overrated centers of all-time.
there's a thing called defense and rebounding. Lots of people consider Bill the best rebounder and rim protector of all time
Bird was better than Magic
Holy mother of God that is something I haven't heard. Please tell me why.
CP3 > Magic tbh
Go jump off a bridge
For being right?
You're joking tho
He is tho. CP3 is a better shooter, scorer, passer, defender
That's sickening to say cp3 is better. Magic is 100% a better passer scorer rebounder and he may not be the greatest defender but he was tall enough to defend any position on the floor.
bruh you commented that as I was typing mine lmfaoo
Magic = 13 ast with 4 turnovers. Cp3 = 11 ast with 2 turnovers, also he had trash teammates. CP3 averaged 5 reb which is pretty good considering his size. CP3 is a far better shooter, and size doesn't necessarily make you a better defender if you can't keep up with the other guards
I can't believe I have to argue magic being better than cp3. The assist turnover ratio isn't everything.
Magic and stockton are the best passers all time no contest.
Stockton just passed to Karl Malone in p&r. read flysenbergs comment to find out what we think about Magic
And he did a damn good job of it.
What do you think chris paul does to get his assists?
He throws that shit in there and has deandre and blake throw it down
Its really not that common at all. Blake is more ball dominant than Cp3, and Cp3 really throws it up about once every game. Sometimes more but thats it. Cp3 still has never had a teammate who could easily score, never had a dominant scorer like Magic had in Kareem. Blake might be doing something, but I highly doubt hell be anywhere near dominant this year
What about before that moron. When the second best player was David West.
I'm a fan of CP3 and I find that Bs tbh. CP3 is a better shooter and defender, but Magic was a much better passer, rebounder, and was great at finishing around the rim.
Not a better passer. Just because he did wide open no look passes hes better? Cp3s better
Why tf are people saying cp3 is better than magic fucking johnson. What is happening rn
bruh this is just obvious. Idk why people will gladly diss Larry but not magic. Cp3 is the greatest pg of all time and thats just facts. Plus he should have won mvp in 2008
Because he is better lol. Its not that hard to understand why he's better
watch Magic highlights and watch Cp3 highlights, Magic was a better passer no doubt, and Magic had way better assist numbers and more total assists
Of course he had more total assists hes played longer. And again, just because he did flashy passes in wide open lanes does not mean he was a better passer
Magic has played a season and a half longer and has almost 3000 more assists
didnt he play with a fast pace offense for like 10 years? Plus he had Kareem, who scored 38,000, plus he had James worthy, michael cooper, etc.
Did you just cite Michael Cooper as a scoring option? lmfao gtfo. CP3 has had Blake, Redick, David West, Tyson Chandler if you wanna play that game lmao
lol i said michael cooper just to fuck around but my statement still stands. NONE of those guys you stated are as dominant as kareem, and Blake isa player who creates his own shots. And the clippers dont play catch and shoot. So when reddick goes off its rarely off assists
Look at the turnovers tho
Turnovers doesnt make you a bad passer, there are plenty of ways turnovers happen, bad dribbling, doing too much with the ball, getting stripped or stolen from, stepping out of bounds ect
Look at the players Magic played with and look at the players CP3 played with. Tell me which team it would be harder to get assists with
Look at James Harden's team right now, he's averaging 13 a game lmao. CP3 has had Blake and DeAndre half his career, 2 pick and roll big men, plus JJ Reddick on the wing it's not that hard, Magic had 1 scoring big man and a bunch of defenders and a few good shooters
I dont think Kareem is "1 scoring big man". He was dominant in all his years but 3. 38,000 points
I didn't mean it to diss Kareem, I'm saying CP3 had more versatility in his offense
That's part of the system he's in tho
Very good comment
Magic needed to be the focal point of the team to succeed, Bird can take a backseat and be a spot up option, be the primary scorer, be the primary facilitator, was a better defender and you could see he was the best player on the floor no matter what. I feel like Bird did more to win games on his own whereas Magic just meshed extremely well with what was around him. Bird was often regarded as the better of the 2 until the injuries began to nag him.
And Magic had the glaring hole in his game which was the jumpshot, you could back off him all day and it would likely amount to a good result for you whereas Bird you've got to be covering and watching 24/7 because he'll burn you from anywhere, and if you let him get into a rhythm you might as well stop trying to defend him because he would absolutely torch at will.
Okay bUT magic being the focal point made him win. I have lots of respect for bird and probably have him ranked a little low but everything that magic brought to the table and on top of that winning 5 nba titles is just too much to beat.
Magic didn't really bring anything to the table that Bird didn't, and add that Magic had a better team around him it's not exactly a fair comparison to be citing championships. I mean if winning 5 chips as a focal point and showing up in the Finals is the merit for Magic then Kobe should be higher up on this list too. Bird was just an overall better player and the only real weakness in his game is that he struggled against more athletic players defensively.
Sure bird could do it all buy magic did it all as well too. If you want to just completely ignore rings with these 2 then fine it does seem unfair. There are flaws with bird though. The dude wasn't very athletic, he wasn't as good of a passer but tbh I do think of magic and bird being more equal than I did after talking to you
Magic just had more deficiencies in his game than Bird. Look what happened in '91 when some of the Lakers' best players went down with injury and he had nobody to defer to, he got clamped up by Pippen. He's a great player but he was a product of the team around him. Bird could take over games by himself as well as be an amazing team player, because Bird couldn't be left open anywhere, you couldn't let him get mismatched and you wouldn't bring heavy help because of his court vision on top of that. He was much more of a singular threat than Magic
Not to mention Bird did average double digit rebounds as a 6'9 power forward, and the argument could be made that Magic was a worse rebounder than Bird was a passer
ye but the celtics were loaded too
how much has undead brainwashed you smfh
wdym? Undead hates Magic lol
you moved him down 5 places
I actually had him at. then Fly gave me a good reason to put him under guys like bird, shaq and wilt. Then I moved him down one more spot because for some reason I had Hakeem really low
And I know professional sports analysts who have Shaq 3rd. Your point?
I don't see anyone on the list better than magic after number 3
Tell me why because that's the only person I would consider
Kareem is the all time scoring leader, 6 rings, 6 mvps, created one of if not the most unstoppable shot of all time the sky hook, carried Magic to rings
That's bullshit saying kareem carried magic to rings. If anything it was the other way around. Kareem got all his numbers with the bucks.
bird too high though
I forgot to edit it to where kareem was ahead of him
Wilt doesn't impress me too much
Ok ok ok ok ok ok
30 XANIES IMMA KILL AL MY PAIN
ok ok ok ok ok ok ok ok o k ok ok
Wade > Russell lmao
Yeah I would agree but Russell is just there for respect reasons.
yeah, otherwise KAJ > Shaq tho
They are tied in my book.
Magic not 3rd (bird better), Hakeem better than Kobe, Jerry not that high, tbh Russell don't belong there, and wilt over Kareem
Tag me if you make a top 10
No no no. Magic won his team more rings and magic and bird had equally good teams. Jerry west is extremely underrated and won a finals mvp on the losing yeam. Russell has 11 rings Nuff said. Kareem is better than wilt 100%. Wilt played in an Era that was easier to win in and still ended up with less accomplishments
Magic's team was sooo much better lmfao. He was playing with the 4th best player ever according to you (even tho Kareem is obviously #2), and he had some of the best role players of all time around him, Larry had Kevin McHale and Robert Parish, they were both great players but they were not as good talent wise as the Lakers
They were decently close. Lol, and lebron is 100% number 2 at this point.
WTF NO LMAOO!!!! Lakers were such a better team talent wise, and Kareem has more MVP's, rings, Points, Rebounds, blocks, and accomplished sooo much more, you are genuinely tripping if you say 100%
Lebron is 2 tho
Probably because lebron hasnt played as many season. Lol
And stop trying to act like that lakers team was filled with scrubs
Are you dumb or did you just mess up? I've been saying the Lakers team was BETTER! And LeBron will never catch Kareem's accomplishments, ever
Yeah I messed up lol.
It's seriously stupid to say lebron won't catch up. He has like 6 more seasons and if gonna pass him and everyone else in points and is gonna be top 5 in assists
LeBron will not be #1 in points, and he is not going to get 6 MVPS and might not get 6 rings
Points have been made
You used the word team a lot there, we are ranking players so things like championships don't make a difference imo
Championships absolutley make a difference. A big Part of being a great basketball player is winning and there is winning a chip is the biggest stage of winning. Not only did these players have great careers they found a way how to get the job done at the highest level which is extremely important imo
Undead beat me to it
Players play their hardest in the finals and imo in the finals is when we find out what every player is truly made out of.
Winning a ring is 100% an individual accomplishment or the 90% of people who have top 10 all time lists wouldnt take it into consideration when making a list
Winning a ring is and isn't. Look at Iverson. Great player, no ring. He had no talent around him, he had old, decent defensive players. plop 99% of players in his situation, same outcome. Look at the 2011 Mavericks. No Dirk, no ring. You need a star to lead you but it's the roleplayers that get you there. Just like in military, you need a leader, you can't just have an army, and vice versa. You can't have a leader without an army
Pretty much what I'm trying to say
But winning chips is a team accomplishment, not a player accomplishment
It is 100% a player accomplishment. If you made it to where these guys just played 5 on 5 pickup games every year and winning never mattered just your stats mattered then everyone's list would be completely different.
If it was %100 a player accomplishment than Lebron would have credit for winning a championship in 2015
Its not 100% a player accomplishment if you can lose no matter how good you play
It still is an individual accomplishment no matter what. If you win a ring that automatically goes on your resume
Its not a individual accomplishment at all. Are you stupid or something?
Yes it is dude. How is it not? Sure it is a team accomplishment but that doesn't mean it's can't be individual as well
Its not individual if you need a great team to do it.
So Robert Horry>Allen Iverson to you?
No absolutley not. I'm saying if you are a great player and it's debatable if u are better than someone else than whoever has more chips is a good tie breaker
Fine, would you say that, Bob Cousy>Dwyane Wade by that suggestion
Obviously not because wade won 3 rings and one by himself
If it would be individual lebron would have 7 championships by now
Make your top 10
I'm watching the walking dead rn so I might after
how old r u?
14 basically 15 at this point
well, Walking Dead is rated R I'm guessing
Whaaat. I am 10 and I sometimes watch it
Dude, you have Bird at 4 and you say I'm stupid for Isiah top 10.
make your top 10 then
after this episode of twd.
Larry Bird is good enough to be at 4.
This was from a while ago it's fixed now
L for Bill Russell
Really just because of the accomplishments and he does have the athleticism to be good in the nba today
alright so how about the rest of the list?
The rest is the same as mine except Joe Dumars isn't there
wait it really the same as yours?
lmao you had hakkem at like 10
Why is Kobe so low
kobe is right where he needs to be. No way I put him any higher
Him and Kareem are interchangeable. A lot of people look at kareems accomplishments and rank him super high for it but he had magic johnson and other great players to help him. That were better than what shaq had
Shaq a bit too high but the rest is perfect
Oh yeah and L for Russell
he is just there for what he was able to accomplish.
*what his team was able to accomplish
I just think it is respectful to have Bill there.
With an overpowered team
Yeah boy, LeBron James stays at #2
shaq over kareem? what
So shy is shaq above Kareem exactly
It is a tie for me. Shaq had a better peak but kareem was better for longer. And the achievements in terms of awards do not mean as much to me as it does for others
Dwyane Wade is the only diamond LOL
Got his new pink diamond in there for ya
Wilt over shaq and its good imo
Wilt was a stat chaser that couldn't win it all against weak competition. Kind of hard to put wilt over shaq with the era difference
nah Wilt didnt care about winning that much.
but what he did even in the 60-70s is still really impressive
Shaq wouda dominate in wilt time to be fare
how tf this have 4 likes
Because it is perfect with KAJ at 3
no wilt is 4
bird should be lower
Magic too low
Hakeem too high
Kobe and Duncan up a spot
Magic became the most overrated player ever. Even more overrated than Robertson...
The rest of the list is solid, I'd only move Hakeem higher.
Hakeem is hard for me. Idk what to think of him but magic isn't overrated
Magic is very overrated. He played with HOFers his whole career, he was a below average defender and played in (probably) the weakest conference ever. Not to mention that his stats are not really top 3 of all time worthy (CP3 averages more PPG and APG per 100 poss)
stop saying shit about cp3 and magic. Bottom line is he is the greatest passer ever, has 5 rings, could score at any position, could defend 4 positions and the numbers prove that Magic was an above average defender so idk what the whole magic can't play defense thing is coming from.
Maybe the greatest passer ever but he did play with Kareem for his whole career (BTW Stockton averages 2-3 more APG per 100 poss)
Of course he has 5 rings, just look at his teammates and the competition he faced in the west...
Please show me the numbers that prove that he was a good defender...
Look at defensive box plus minus is better than the majority of point guards.
And almost every player up there with multiple rings had good teammates...
Westbrook was by far the best defensive PG in the NBA last season, accoring to DBPM (lmao).
Any reason why he is better than Hakeem, Shaq, Bird, Duncan or Kobe besides rings?
He is defintley better than kobe idk why u would bring him up. Duncan seemed too two dimensional throughout his career the dream seemed to fold when he played the bulls, and Larry bird was hard for me
Kobe - way better scorer and defender than Magic, played in a tougher era
Duncan - way way way better defender, I'm not sure about this one
Hakeem - way way way better defender and a better scorer (fun fact: 23 year old Hakeem beat the prime showtime Lakers in the 1986 WCF 4-1)
Larry Bird - better all around player, I'm not sure about this one also
You sure about kobe but not duncan? Kobe wasn't a way better defender by any means and his win shares is shit compared to people on this top 12.
All defensive teams:
Kobe - 12
Magic - 0
CP3 is #1 all time in WS (per 48 mins). Just saying.
You should know all defensive and all teams are bullshit.
Not really. Maybe Kobe didn't deserve a few of those selections but it's still a huge difference.
couldn't agree more tbh