This has changed from being a Top 13 list to a "Is Bill Russell Overrated or Not?" Argument
http://2kmtcentral.com/18/lineups/186223/is-bill-russell-overrated#comment-1094350 Lets start a debate boys
You wouldn't say that to some 6 foot 10 black guy that could kick your assl, AKA Bill Russel @Mamba_1
LeBron is better than Kobe.
LeBron>Kobe its been fax for a while
Bill was so overrated
*60s players besides Wilt
He would be good, he had tremendous athleticism that would make him good in any league he played in and he was an extremely smart NBA player who could command the paint and when experts watched the tapes they think he averaged 8-10 blocks per game. Just his court IQ alone would get him in the league nowadays.
stats were inflated because of pace so in reality he would be getting 10 rebounds a game and I've heard experts say he would only get 3 in today's game and while he was a great defensive player his offense was atrocious and he only shot 44% from the field over his career when centers should be getting around 50%
also rings are overrated
ill Russell would fare just as well, if not better, in today’s NBA. Not in terms of statistical production—whether individual stats or team titles—but he would still be a better player. All of Russell’s greatest assets and abilities would be better utilized and trained in 2015 than they were in 1965.
Russell had flawless timing in terms of when to jump and swat shots. That was thanks to his natural jumping ability and his own memory of how opponents liked to shoot. With game film to use in 2015, Russell’s dedication to studying opponents would be enhanced, and the rest of the NBA would suffer humiliation at the rim as a result.
The drawback with Russell would obviously fall on offense, since he had little range on his mediocre jumper. However, Russell was one of the first players to use alley-oops. Imagine him as a Tyson Chandler type today: limited but still useful on offense and absolutely devastating on defense.
1. We aren't talking about giving him film and modern day advantages, we are using pure talent and we are ripping him straight out of the 60s and plopping him in a game
2. He was a great defender but also back his era there were no 3s so more shots were taken in the paint that's why he had so many blocks but he would average 2-3 today considering pace and the amount of 3s being taken now
3. He would play some sort of Tyson Chandler role, but is Tyson Chandler a top 13 player of all-time? No
Well that isn't fair because the other players would be given unfair advantages, if he had the same advantages as all the other players now he would do exceedingly well and be an instant favorite for DPOTY
he would be DPOY but if you really think about it he would average a lot less because of pace so he would average 10 pts 10 rebounds and 2-3 blocks a game while being a defensive liability so how is that top 13
Did you just say that Bill Russell would be a "defensive liability"??
I meant to say offensive
my bad I was talking about defense too much
he was an offensive liability though and I think it would be worse today just how the game is played
I think he might start out slow on the offensive end but with a year or two of work he could at least hold his own being how atheltic he is
He could be a MVP candidate today
"with a year or two of work"
that's not how this works
we are analyzing his abilities and we can see he wasn't good on offense and never was good so therefore he wasn't good on offense
that's like putting Anthony Bennet in a random era and saying "with a year or two of work he might be good"
He is fast and has a great defending ability. Al he would need is a jumper and he would probably develop one given the way the game has gone today.
yeah but that's a what if so that's irrelevant
his defense was amazing lets leave it at that and just recognize how he was complete shit on offense and if a player is only good on one side of the court how are they better than other players who were great on both sides like hakeem was one of the best defenders ever and an offensive monster
Yeah, but Anthony Bennett wasn't as athletically gifted as Bill Russell was. Bill Russell was an extremely hard worker and could develop his post game with time
then how come his offense was always shit
this isn't how this works
we look at a player, see his abilities, and then we form an opinion
we aren't saying "if a player worked harder they would've been better" that's a what if and what ifs aren't arguments they are meaningless
OK, so here's my assessment of Bill Russell as he was in his prime
1.) Obviously an incredibly gifted defensive juggernaut who owned the paint and could use his insane vert and athleticism to send back any shots within his vicinity.
2.) He was a great leader who led a team to 11 rings in 13 years. He led a team of players without even leading in scoring.
3.) His offensive game was not absolutely trash, but left a lot to be desired. He would score mostly of athletic finishes and transition buckets.
4.) His dedication to the game was incredible and in the 60's he would change his defensive strategy every single game to adjust for who he was guarding.
5.) Even today he would force players who normally liked to drive or post up to get their points (LeBron, almost every big, and players like Durant and Kyrie would have to only score from the outside or risk getting swatted) and just generally just force teams to play from the outside which some already do, so this would be an advantage but not as big as back then.
6.) He would probably be one of the league leaders in rebounds even though now he is a bit undersized his athleticism would allow him to elevate above other players.
7.) He would play PF today because of his height.
By what is Bill Russell better than likes of Hakeem Duncan and Shaq or even prime Dwight
1. He was a defensive juggernaut but he would still only get 2-3 blocks a game today
2. Rings don't matter
3. It was absolutely trash he had the field goal percentage of Paul George this year
4. Cool that goes for everybody
5. Your over estimating his abilities honestly nobody can stop people driving into the paint to that degree and LeBron would still be able to score on him
6. Yeah he would everybody knows that
7. Maybe he could play the 4 or the 5
he himself said that blocking shots alone doesnt make u a good defender.
they matter, when you're the best player in all of them.
again this obsession with making russell out to be a scrub offensively. he finished in the top 8 in assists 4 times from the center position. finished top 5 in FG% 4 times. he scored 15 ppg and 16 in hte PS. he's not an elite offensive player, but you are acting like he's Gana Diop. he's not.
lol rings dont matter
horry has more rings than MJ but MJ is still better
LeBron lost like 5 finals series but he's still a top 2 or 3 player of all-time
Because Horry was obviously not as good as Bill Russel or MJ
LeBron has been to a lot of finals and has had to play some of the greatest teams ever to win them and he has done other things to make up for those losses
@Billbert33 Where is he on your top of all time?
exactly that last part is my argument
LeBron lost because he had hard competition even though he is the 2nd best player of all-time to me while Bill won 11 rings because he had easy competition
Bill Russell still played against tough competition like Wilt Chamberlain, Walt Bellamy, Elgin Baylor, Jerry West, Bob Petit, Oscar Robertson, Jerry Lucas, Willis Reed, and others
But Bill had teammates and they all didn't except for Wilt for like 2 years
He won his last ring in 69' when a lot of those players were active
yeah I never said they weren't active they were active
but Bill had teammates to help him win a ring and they didn't for the most part
His defensive abilities were unreal. hes the best defender ever, and he won 11 rings.
yeah he was great on defense but not the best ever because you need to adjust his stats due to pace and if you do that you can see there are better defensive players and rings don't matter because by that logic Robert Horry is better than MJ which is bullshit
Bill Russell was the best player on his team when he won the rings. Horry was not
yeah but do you see why using rings isn't a good argument
also all stars in the 60s were by themsleves while Bill had Cousy and Havlicek
so it's kind of like how the warriors have 4 stars while other teams only have 1 or 2
Wrong Wilt had rosters as good from 66-69
So u r telling me Ben Wallace is top 13 player of all time?
This is fax
did you really respond to your own comment
Kevin Durant burner account lookin ass
No im saying that what I just said was facts because I just wanted to have the article in that comment
Do u consider Dennis Rodman top 13 all time?
Rodman is a worse version of Bill, but he would be just as effective today as back then
How is he worst version of Bill when he was better offensive rebounder and as gopd on defense
Bill Russell was better on defense, and just as good as a rebounder
Debate this on the other lineup linked on the sticky
Bill Russell would probably be averaging 16 pts, 15 rebs and 3 blocks per game rn. He's easily top 10
Dennis couldn't lead a team plain and simple
if bill can rodman can in the 60s
(in the 60s) but rodman couldn't in the 90s if he was the best player on his team that team wouldn't be too good
MJ without Rodman loses to Magic in 6
MJ with Rodman sweeps Magic and wins last game of 1996 finals beside shooting 5/19
holly hell i didn't know
Balheaded gambler also known as plumber destroyer shot 22/60 24 ppg since guarded by Glove
Jordan? lmao damn
Kim Jong Jun supporter grabbed 22 offensive rebounds(11 G6) to go with 23 defensive rebounds with getting into head of best Sonics scorer Kemp and forcing him to get 6th foul in close out game
bro scalabrine should be first #FAX
hell no on the bill russell
lmao nice troll
I don't think he's trolling
Scal nigga, plus the fool has Bill in his top 5 while Hakeem is #12
yeah the scal was obviously a troll but
he's downvoting everyone now lmaooo
mhm lmao somebody's feelings are hurt
Scal is the only troll, Bill Russell was good
He was good but not worthy of top 5, maybe top 13 but your overrated his ass fr
Bill Russell is the best defender of all time. @Mamba_1
are u trying to tag me? if so no i never stated that
bro your actually dumb. Kobe is trash Jack_Wendt is right
So you made an alt just to tell me that dumbass shit?
I only have one question to ask you, does Tupac KNOW you?
By the way i made my account before yours dumbass.
you know your terrible at arguments when you say kys to defend yourself. fucking little kid smh.
lmao you are upvoting yourself now? damn u bum fr
so what lmao?
lol. you know saying so what is admitting what i said is true and you just threw the white flag and i'm just fucking around with my friends. your a meme.
that literally made no sense, you ain't shit, i seriously don't know who the hell you even are but jump off my dick fr
iamjam7 17 minutes ago
bro your actually dumb. Kobe is trash Jack_Wendt is right
Mamba_ 16 minutes ago
So you made an alt just to tell me that dumbass shit?
*Sees that the account iamjam7 was made March 31st*
Where the alt at tho Mamba
lmao the site creator is in college
that's a fucking lie, and kys
Lowkey he did make his acc before you
so what lmaoo?
So you shouldn't be saying that he made an alt just to support himself like a dumbass
what the fuck does when you made your account have to do with anything lmao
Retard Mamba over here said that Jack Wendt made an alt just to agree with himself but iamjam was made a long time ago
Bankers, don't be talking about retarted people. You have the worst top 13 all-time and then try to back it up, with Wilt arguments, did you see him play???
1. My top 13 is solid
2. Where are my Wilt arguments??
it's not solid man if this was 3 months ago when people used the site there would be like 10 people on your ass
1. nice joke
2. I meant Bill Russell arguments
he could have an alt from a long time ago lmao
No, Jack_Wendt was made way after iamjam, we all have 2kmtc accs just I am the only one who uses mine really
so I know a user who had an account and then abandoned it for another account
we are all friends at school right now
we've been trolling ur dumbass
I'm not even a part of this conversation I'm just defending mamba cause he's my friend
I'm just here for the wilt debate
what wilt debate
fuck I meant bill
i keep messing up today
but here's an article on why bill is overrated cause I'm done arguing everything: http://bleacherreport.com/articles/441840-bill-russell-an-overrated-nba-legend
he did make an alt you can tell as they talk the same...
We all talk the same because we are from the same school in the same grade so obviously we talk the same.
yeah bro me jack_wendt tsmith and bankers are literally all sitting next to each other laughing rn
Bro he didnt make an alt... Retard alert
i bet i get no response too lmao
mmh no u havent done shit on this site stop saying you're dad is the owner lmaoo
bro that was a fucking joke obviously. I was mocking you and how you think your cool bc you got like 200 likes on a shitty comment. This is probably your life
Damn you fr, like trolling on niggas. This ain't my life trust me, I literally just come here to talk shit and debate
Scalabrine I think should not be on the top 13 players of all time even though they call him the goat.
you 'think' no scal is terrible