10th most commented upon lineup of all time jeeeeeeeeeeeezus
ayyy most commented
We at 9th most comments across all lineups 2K16-2K19 damn
This ain't as preposterous a claim that everyone is reacting it to be
Ik some people just don't like change
because MJ IS THE GOAT
None of this will matter in like 3-4 yrs time lmao it's inevitable
Doncic gonna end the debate once and for all no cap
Won't ever be as good as Bron purely based off athleticism/elite power or strength. He's just not on par physically to be the GOAT sadly
Pretty sure your opinion has changed now right? Don't matter any way because you are wrong. Jordan is a far better offensive and defensive player. Bron has a few attributes like his wide body, tall frame and passing vision however MJ is literally better at everything else.
I was referring to Doncic u nonce
STRAIGHT FROM @Bogotac HIMSELF
LeBron already has it all. Great peak (for me 09), great prime and extended one and the longevity (starting to compete with all time greats at this point).
This guy is playing at superstar level since 2005. He has 14 finishes in the top 5 of the MVP run.
He's definitely a great floor raiser - we saw what he did in 07 with that poor cast, taking them to the finals. In 08 he took the Celtics to 7 games (I know the 1st two were bad games, but he played a lot better as the series went by, ending up with a chance of getting the upset in game 7 on the road).
In 09 and 10 those Cavs team had clearly no business winning 60+ games. I don't think anyone else could replicate what he did with those casts.
In his great teams (the Heatles and now with the Cavs) LeBron has shown he is a great leader and teammate. He's able to carry the scoring load, playmaking role and doing the dirty work on a consistent basis (rebounding, defending).
He's able to defend guards (11 Rose is a great example) and any type of forward effectively. He also plays the role of rim protector really well for a SF - I'd say he's in contention for the best perimeter player ever in that role.
(Most Playoff Games With) At least 2 steals and 2 blocks
56 - Hakeem Olajuwon
39 - Ben Wallace
35 - LeBron James
32 - David Robinson
LeBron James with the season on the line
The only notable thing (Marc Gasol) did is rob LeBron of DPOY (would have given LeBron as many DPOY's as MJ :thinking:)
- 28.4 PPG | 7.2 APG | 7.6 RPG -
- .318 WS48 | 13.0 BPM | 31.3 EWA | 31.7 PER -
- 35.3 PPG | 7.3 APG | 9.1 RPG -
- .399 WS48 | 18.2 BPM | 7.8 EWA | 37.4 PER -
- 31.5 PPG | 5.5 APG | 6.0 RPG -
- .321 WS48 | 10.8 BPM | 26.4 EWA | 31.6 PER -
- 31.1 PPG | 8.4 APG | 6.4 RPG -
- .333 WS48 | 13. 8 BPM | 7.5 EWA | 32.0 PER -
Averaging their 3 best scoring postseasons:
LeBron Top 3 playoffs
Jordan Top 3 Playoffs
Look up all these comments if you want. They all come from Bogo, who's been one of MJ's most ardent supporters on here.
@KINGJAMES62 @theflugame @bogotac4 @Baconater256 Any questions?
When I first came to this site, I debated against bogo many times in forums and lineups regarding the mj v lbj debate. Both of us have brought up good arguments and arguments we've regretted making. But, before he got banned, I think I may have swayed bogo into revising his own views on the debate.
Updated list of his top 13. You'll notice whose first.
"2011 only thing keeping Bron from being GOAT tbh." "Just too much of a blemish on his career, MJ hasn't had anything close to 2011, most all time greats haven't"
"MJ was a rookie in ‘85 and injured in ‘86. Accomplishments in remaining, full years on the Bulls (‘87-‘93, ‘96-‘98)
10 scoring titles
10 All NBA First teams
9 all defensive first teams
3x Steals leader
In TEN SEASONS. Incomprehensible."
- Bogotac, circa Aug 2018
Bogo never came out and explicitly stated that LeBron was the GOAT. He made many compelling arguments for both sides and sparked debate for both sides. He is easily the most knowledgable person on the site and I have nothing but respect for him and the stats he brings up.
i have respect for bogo, but i think he genuinely thought lebron was the GOAT while he and i debated. some of the arguments that both of us made were so out there and irrational that the only people who'd make those claims were diehard supporters of said claim.
im not sure if he unironically called mj the goat beforehand.
Yeah but the arguments Bogo used were for sure usable cause he can find the best stats to manipulate arguments.
and i had my own arguments regarding the issue that were usable. i don't think "manipulate" is the best word to be used, that would be like saying he did so deceitfully to draw away from other arguments that were valid.
Also not on the same level as Bron's for sure but the closest MJ came to 2011 was 1995, when he came back but the Bulls still lost to the Magic in the ECF. Again, not on the same level by any means, just trying to point out even MJ had a disappointing playoff series.
sure, that was disappointing. but why do you think that bron > mj with 2011?
Cause a career can't be defined by some bad performances. Yes Bron didn't perform the way you would expect him too, but he still had a 54% TS%, had 18-7-7-2 which are still solid stats and was second in the Heat in total Game Score (ahead of Bosh who averaged 19-7). I also believe LeBron was trying to be too much of a facilitator in this series as Bron was still adapting to play with HOF teammates, and it was after the failings in this season he realised he should put the team on his back regardless of teammates or opponents, hence 2012.
but we're arguing whose the greatest of all time. some bad performances just drag you down when trying to determine all of the little things coming into a GOAT discussion. lebron's stats are solid for a third option that series, and the stories in that series, such as "Can he stop Jason Terry?", Mavs 4Q comeback in G2, "Not one, not two.." declaration the summer before, and Lebron's questionable decision-making.
as a player, i agree he made up for 2011. but when discussing about him being GOAT, i just can't let this slide. same for him leaving for miami. it's great he did that, he opened up the league for other players to not be bound to one team. but the story around bron leaving cleveland for miami needs to be talked about when talking whose GOAT.
Bron only left for Miami because the Cleveland Front Office never even attempted to pair him with a second All-Star. He carried a team that wouldn't win more than 30 games without him to the Finals in 2007 and even worse teams to back to back 60 win seasons in 2009 and 2010. Something unknown about 2010 FA was that the Raptors agreed to a sign and trade which would send Bosh to Cleveland (https://bleacherreport.com/articles/416370-nba-free-agency-2010-chris-bosh-go-to-the-cavaliers-with-lebron-james) however the failure to even offer Wade a contract led to the three holding a last-minute meeting which ultimately led to the decision to join Miami. Cleveland's ineptitude was what led to Bron's decision, and he knew his legacy would not be cemented until he won a ring in Cleveland, hence his return in 2014. Oh, and one more thing: as you said, "he opened up the league for other players to not be bound to one team". If that occurred in the 1980s, there could be a real chance MJ leaves Chicago.
ah, but mj didn't leave. and there was something that happened like that in mj's time: moses malone, the previous year's mvp who also led the rockets to the finals in '81, signing with the 76ers. resulting in fo' fi' fo'.
yeah bron could move to miami, but the story around him winning multiple championships (2+, i mean) and the straight up arrogance in display was what added to 2011's downfall.
The arrogance was unnecessary and the downfall of 2011 really shaped LeBron into the player he is now with that killer instinct and whatnot. Without 2011 there is a realistic chance LeBron might not even be in this debate, as crazy as that sounds. Moses Malone was a peculiar case, he made the Finals in 1981 with Houston but fell out with the Rockets brass and as a result, left once his contract ended.
taking this seriously, good stat digging
This was tough to find damn. He probs has a lot more too cause I only went back to May 2018.
using my argument doesnt count HTH
it was when bogo was being a meme in favor of lebron. not taking this seriously
Mhm being a "meme" riiiiiiiiiiiiiight read the whole thing
i admitted to it sir xx
i have. it was a joke. and i can send you awesome videos of lebron defending guards
So he was joking around for 4 whole months burning his valuable time to get stats like this? Mhm
yes actually he said so himself
Even if he was joking in his opinion, as these guys have said, the stats don't lie
weve allready disected the whole thing
Well then post your full disection here mah boi
look thru some comments like damn
These comments ain't shit. I need Bogo or VB style responses
staryting from the top, 09 and 10 cavs teams weren't bad at all
09- 2 players over 15ppg, 1 over 7apg, none over 10rpg, 2spg or 2bpg
10- 3 players over 15ppg, 1 over 7apg, none over 10rpg, 2spg or 2bpg
Those aren't teams that would win over 60 games tbh
they were one of the best defensive teams in the league even without lebron. they make the playoffs witohut him but not win 60+
shut your peen nerd, you suck tits bitch
You really reaching when u use an argument from the other side to prove your point lmao, how can you be so blind nigga
Cause Bogo has been one of the best debaters on the site and he's worked both sides soo...
reported for mental abuse you are paying for my therapy
i make 7.4 million a year
it costs exactly 7.4 million conveniently
ok you have to become a pro NBA player
Whats a NBA
National Basketball Association
whats a basketball
bas·ket·ballDictionary result for basketball
a game played between two teams of five players in which goals are scored by throwing a ball through a netted hoop fixed above each end of the court.
the inflated ball used in the game of basketball.
ok how much does it cost
flus doing it
yes. and we have already debunked plenty of the arguments he made. pay attention here.
Well give me the debuttals.
Shotout to ya'll for making this the most commented on lineup
First off, the talent gap in Jordan's era was much larger than it was today. Yes you had generational talents such as Thomas, Johnson, Malone, Olajuwon etc but you were either an All Star or a role player. There really was no inbetween. This gap is narrower today than ever before, as every team in the league has at least 1 All-Star caliber player.
Second, Jordan didn't make the Finals until his 7th season (at 27 years old mind you) whilst LeBron had made it in his 4th season at 22.
Third, Jordan always needed a sidekick to make the Finals in Pippen. When Jordan retired in 93, Pippen still led Chicago to the playoffs in 94. LeBron made the finals in 07 with no other All Star teammate (a feat only matched in the 21st century by Dirk in 2011) and again in 2018 with Kevin Love (who missed a quarter of the season) as his only All Star teammate. Furthermore, Cleveland without LeBron has gone from Runners up to dumpster fire in the space of a year, contradicting what happened to Jordanless Chicago. To add to this, LeBron has the most playoff Win Shares ALL TIME. There is no player in NBA history that has done more for a playoff team than he has. This also proves how TERRIBLE LeBron's teams were. Yes MJ is second, but thats by over 11 Win Shares (a lot in the grand scheme of things)
Finally, LeBron is the better player than MJ in every category outside of defense and mid range shooting. By the end of this season he will overtake MJ in total points, having already done so in assists and rebounds. Put simply, LeBron is the most all round player the league has ever seen and arguably ever will see.
P.S: If you want to use the 6-0<3-6 argument, then Bill Russell is the Goat. End of debate.
one last thing, since u wanna use stats.
Michael Jordan is ranked:
#1 in PPG
#1 in PER
#1 in win shares per 48
#1 in MVP award shares
#1 in playoff win shares per 48
#1 in playoff PPG
#1 in playoff PER
fax, LBJ is nothing compared to MJ
there are no stats that say lebron is better
except rebounding but thats because everybody wants to shoot three's nowadays
mike is a better offensive rebounder and played a guard position. the first part helps show he's better offensively, the second part shows the gap isn't that big
as good of a passer too. he just didnt play point guard like lebron did to stat pad his assists. happy to help
1989 i believe he played pg for 11 game stretch. averaged almost a triple double. put up consistently similar assist numbers whenever playing that role in other games
he played in triangle literally his entire career. a system that lowers the assists of the guards and increases assists of big men. before triangle mj averaged 8 assists one season while also having 8 rebounds and 32 points per game on 60% ts.
also has one of the highest single-series assist averages in finals history (forget which year)
actually the highest finals average in history by anyone not named magic johnson. 1991.
if mj played pg/not in triangle system he no doubt has better assists #s
yep, but if people weren't in love with the three ball, MJ would be better at rebounding
not sure that's accurate. lebron is bigger and plays a position more suited to rebounding.
threes are more popular than they used to be tho
this is not the reason lbj has better rebounding stats.
"Second, Jordan didn't make the Finals until his 7th season (at 27 years old mind you) whilst LeBron had made it in his 4th season at 22."
mj had to face on of the greatest teams of all time, bad boy pistons and bird celtics.. while lebron had to face... gilbert arenas wizards???
"Third, Jordan always needed a sidekick to make the Finals in Pippen." he wouldve won multiple rings without pippen.
"Pippen still led the bulls to the playoffs"
yeah.. he did.. and they went from winning 3 in a row to losing in the 2nd round.. the season after they were under .500% until MJ came back... win shares? cmon. that stats is shit. lebron has more win shares bcz he played way more games and minutes than mj in the playoffs.
lmao. finishing = mj. rebounding for positiong = mj. scoring overall = mj. defense overall = mj. how is mj not better if hes a better scorer and defender?
mj 6 finals mvps, lebron 3 finals mvps, bill russell 0. hoep this helps.
I agree with you but you do know the reason why Russell wasn’t finals MVP is because they didn’t have ‘till ‘69
MJ is still the GOAT
thats the joke
LeBron made a finals with no all stars? That's cute, MJ won two championships with no all stars.
lebron 0 finals games wins without james jones lmaoooooo
Jordan got more rings, more accolades, more success, better on offense and defense with arguably less help.
Let’s not blame Jordan for beating his competiton.
P.S.: We’re going by skill and rings, Jordan wins both
AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA good joke m8 check the stats first.
yea? jordan better o and d.
Great! Good to know I was right
dis kid lost, even going by the only way he can present a decent argument for this topic, he still ends up getting exposed.
yep, this kid has never heard of Gary Payton, or the Bad Boys Pistons lmfao
Lebron has had more chances than Mj on all time stats because he's already played over 100 more games than Jordan. Oh and Jordan needs sidekick to make the finals. Without an all star Lebron can't even lead hs team to the PLAYOFFS. And don't make an argument that he isn't in the playoffs cuz he's in the west. Jordan had to go through the Pistons and Celtics. When LBJ was in the east he had to play the Arenas Wizards, the Defrozen Raptors, and was taken to 7 games by Victor Oladipo, Myles Turner, Bojan Bogdanovic, and Darren Collison.
Down @LALakers if Michael Jordan is better!
The wins argument for when both left is extremely flawed btw, LeBron's teams were built solely to support him and the system was based on him. In MJ's case, he had guys like Scottie Pippen for example, who didn't rely on MJ to be a great player and thus the Bulls were able to win more games without MJ than the Cavs when Lebron left
I assume your on the Bron side?
ok, seemed like you were
just, the wins thing and how the Cavs sucked ass without LBJ
In this league, in ANY league, you are either a star or a role-player. There’s NEVER an in-between. You were either a star...or a total bum. Very RARELY was there an in-between.
This is why you don't express your opinions on this site even if they right
"First off, the talent gap in Jordan's era was much larger than it was today. Yes you had generational talents such as Thomas, Johnson, Malone, Olajuwon etc but you were either an All Star or a role player. There really was no inbetween. This gap is narrower today than ever before, as every team in the league has at least 1 All-Star caliber player."
Lmao. lebron himself literally admitted the current league is watered down and that the 90s were better...
its news to me if kings, hawks, etc. have all star caliber player
So did Buddy Hield and Trae Young just up and die?
if you think they're all-star caliber, you are on crack.
also i love how this is the only point you rebutted because you have no answer for anything else.
"MJ didn't make finals until his 7th season"
Maybe take into account how much better the Eastern Conference was?
When Jordan left, the Bulls added several good players that were never all there at the same time as him. Plus Bulls had a system in place unlike LeBron, who builds teams of spotup shooters that can't function
So who joined in 1993 that left by 1995?
10th best offense
5th best defense
12th in PPG
7th in opponent PPG
5th best defense without Mj.... Hmmmm
Best defense with MJ.... hmmmmmm
I'm just saying Pippen doesn't get enough credit. Only reason he didn't win DPOY was because of MJ. Without MJ the Bulls were still a solid team BECAUSE of Pippen
your just proved MJ's superiority at Defense lmfao
No I didn't. I proved that Pippen did as much for the Bulls as MJ did, therefore degrading MJ's presence and overall legacy.
you said "only reason pippen didnt win dpoty is cause of mj". thats putting mj higher because he was that good
But it also says Pippen was a DPOY caliber player.
but MJ won it over Pippen, you are digging yourself a hole here
Over rookie Pippen
mhm. btw you done saying east is better when lebron played?
I never said it was
seemed like that's what you were arguing with kingjames about. cause its ridiculously weak
no, you said because of Jordan, Pippen didnt get DPOY, meaning that MJ was better than Pippen and Payton and Hakeem at defense
hes proving our point
not like they added 5 other dudes that weren't there before
Only real difference makers were Kerr and Kukoc, both known for offence more than defence.
Guarantee you'd be talking about how role players like Longley really helped MJ
Nope, I don't do that.
3rd in opponent PPG
All but Grant, Myers and Armstrong were there in 96
I phrased it badly earlier. Its also the addition of these guys improved the team from the year before. You can see that. Imagine Cavs added 4 or 5 rlly solid players this year.
If we're being honest, the Cavs team is of course worse than the 94-95 Bulls but if the Bulls got the 3 seed that year then the Cavs may have made the playoffs. Huge if and unlikely but still.
i can get the list but need to find it first. might take me some time.
IM SAYING THAT HE DID BETTER VS SUPERIOR COMPETITION AND STILL WON IT ALL WITHOUT BEING CARRIED, MORE CARRYING HIS TEAMS, THE LBJ ARGUMENT OS SO FUCKING FLAWED THAT IT IS LITERALLY JUST LOOPHOLES IN THE MJ ARGUMENT
If MJ carried the team, he should have more win shares. If it's loopholes in the MJ argument, that makes it a valid argument. Literally everything you said in this statement was stupid.
JORDAN FACED SUPERIOR COMPETITION
ever heard of GARY FUCKING PAYTON? HOW ABOUT THE BAD BOY PISTONS? ONE OF THE BEST TEAMS ON DEFENSE?
What about the Big 4 Celts? Or the New Bad Boy Pistons? In fact, 9 of LeBron's 15 seasons have seen a player from the Eastern conference win DPOY.
here. stop arguing that eastern conference is better with lebron. you're welcome
the eastern conference is weaker under lebron and this is statistical fact
do you know who HAKEEM FUCKING OLAJUWON IS?
Did he magically play in the Eastern Conference in his prime? Compare Apples to fucking Apples mate
and Jordan won DPOY over him, so, MJ>LBJ at defense and MJ>LBJ at offense, that should be enough
he played them in the Finals tho lmfao
Ummmm... No he didn't lmao. The only reigning DPOY he played in the Finals was Payton.
do you know who won the other awards? Eastern conference players! Therefore, he played against tougher defense, had tougher competition, yet he prevails greatly over LBJ
EC players not named MJ won a total of 3 DPOY awards during MJ's years in Chicago. Keep digging yourself a hole.
why dont you come in with me then? Because he had a tougher conference than Lebron ever had, just admit it, MJ is GOAT.
You don't need to protect your argument this far. You are sounding delusional m8
MJ had a tougher conference, prove me wrong
LeBron is a better player, prove me wrong
mj better o and d, won more of everything, there you go
read every comment from flu here and you will be proven wrong
Kinda weird your name is King James but your saying mj is better.
I actually respect that.
you been proven wrong numerous times bruh bruh, I know you can present a better argument. Think the only reason you made this post was because you liked lebron a little more than MJ
he's a 10 y/o who doesn't even know what the NBA is, so he just likes the popular names
Actually, I'm in 12th grade. @Baconater256 is right. I can make a better argument, but I can't be assed rn.
do it, I dare you, we will still destroy your arguments with pure facts and knowledge
Why does there have to be a goat? why are Lebron and MJ always compared. They both carried their teams to championships, both played in different eras. But play completely different. Michael is primarily a scorer and Lebron is all around. Why does finals records matter. Not Lebron is better or anything but finals records are pretty invalid when we are talking about individual players. Robert Horry is 7-0 and Bill Russell is I think 11-1 and they aren't in goat conversations. Why don't we compare Lebron to Magic or something and not MJ. If anyone should be considered the Goat in my opinion is Kareem Abdul-Jabbar. IDK that's just my opinion
because somebody has to be the best at something
he is the best at losing in the finals
if he had that killer instinct he wouldve been able to overcome the massholes and he wouldnt have been phased by the cross burnings outside of the garden
tbh. imagine if he had mamba mentality. would be considered the GOAT by many
plz back up your statement on Kareem being the GOAT
Well, Kareem like Jordan has 6 rings, The most MVPS with 6, Played against centers that were way harder to go against at his position (Wilt, Russell, Walton, exc) and is the all time leader in points. Very underrated imo
There's a lot of things wrong with what you just said
1. using rings is a joke of an argument
2. MVPs is an even worse arguement
3. Bill retired before Kareem was in the league, Wilt was at the end of his career and Bill Walton had a prime of 2 seasons
4. He's the all time points leader because he played in an era with more possessions making it easier to have more scoring chances and he played with great passing guards like Oscar and Magic
Well, I was just trying to make a point. stop comparing Bron and M.J. it gets annoying
People are never going to stop comparing Bron and MJ
they are the the best players of their generations, it's bound to happen
but never call kareem the goat again, that's just stupid
Fine but Kareem is still at least top 10
6 finals mvps > 2 finals mvps
andre Iguodala has a final mvp doesnt mean hes better than Curry lol
currys final performances are better than any of iggys. same goes with mj and kareem
he never played russell.. he retired. he played wilt and he got SONNED. walton is the only real competition and he only played him twice because walton had foot problems
walton a 2 time all star that never played more than 65 games in his prime
IM SETTLING THIS SHIT RN
MJ is better in almost every category, case closed, and if you want a comparison between players then and now here you go:
MJ is the GOAT there is no denying it now
1. MJ is literally better in only 3 statistical categories....... yeah not "almost every category"
2. Comparing Hakeem and Kawhi as defenders doesn't work. One's a SF and one's a C, therefore the rebounding and block stats will be vastly different. Furthermore, you cannot compare them in this context as Hakeem would not usually be assigned to MJ, but Kawhi would be assigned to Bron.
but they were good at defending and sometimes Hakeem DID guard Jordan as strategy
@theflugame @The_NBA_Studio go teach these kids some lessons
Shouldn’t need to, it’s common knowledge
Did you even read the comment mate
he did, mate, you are wrong
obviously it isn't to him
who is LBJ
huh? i dont know him, hence, hes a nobody
LeBron fans love using 11 rings. However, context is needed. Russell played against just 7 other teams, and only had two rounds of playoffs including finals. He also had several Hall of Famers on his team. That's why MJ's 6 is more impressive
Even without considering that, rings aren't the only part of the debate but they are a factor. Russell as a player isn't near MJ or Bron, and MJ's rings count for something
Explain how LeBron is better when Jordan is superior on offense and defense, plus has more accolades, awards, and titles
And no I don't believe LeBron is the greatest of all-time at this very moment but he shall when it's all said and done. And explain to me how you could be that much better of offense without a 3 point shot
If he’s not the GOAT yet, he won’t ever be. He will never accomplish anything else imo. Already in decline and playing on a bad team.
Free Throws- MJ
Passing- LeBron (barely)
Rebounding- MJ (this is only offensive rebounding)
Number of seasons averaging over 6 APG
Number of seasons averaging over 7 APG
Number of seasons averaging over 8 APG
Number of seasons averaging over 9 APG
What you forgot to take into account is:
MJ played a very different role. LeBron effectively functions as a point guard and has the ball most of the time. This was not the same for Jordan. During an 11-game stretch playing PG in 1989, Jordan averaged almost a triple-double. Whenever he played that position, he posted similar stats. MJ also played in the triangle offense- a system that takes away assists from guards and increases assists for centers. Jordan also has the highest single-finals assist average of any player not named Magic Johnson. To just list those stats is incredibly misleading.
MJ stat padded lol, he asked the announce table time after time how many points, rebounds and assists he had and needed to get a triple double
lebron stat pads too. don't even try it
watch a game please
"Players have grumbled that James has slowed the ball movement, holding onto the ball until he sees an "assist" pass, rather than moving it quickly."
yeah, Lebum would have a much lower APG rating than Jordans if he played the same role as Jordan did
Forgot triangle offense as well
Yes he will tf, he will accomplish much more in his career. Maybe like being top 3 in scoring, top 5-8 in assists and being top 40 in rebounding. He definitely will win a championship or two in the near future but I don't even wanna use championships in this argument because there is so much more than that in basketball. Secondly get the fuck outta here, MJ ain't a better finisher than LeBron, LeBron's ability to finish with either hand and in almost any position on any defender is insane. Finally LeBron is a MUCH better passer don't give me that barely bs, stats (which LeBron dominates in assists in) doesn't tell the entire story. His ability on the court to pinpoint his teammate in a position to score is something MJ never owned. Trust me if LeBron didn't devote alot of his career to allow hid teammates to score he'd average over 30 foe his career and we saw that in his rarely years in Cleveland
Top whatever is a longevity stat. I highly doubt Bron ever wins another chip, unless he's on a superteam and maybe not even the best player. Jordan is arguably the best finisher ever, and for sure better than LeBron. I just refuted your poorly-researched assists argument. Any questions?
Your points are terrible lmao, my assists weren't poorly argued they are simple facts, and since you wanna turn the tables on scenarions, what if LeBron was in the scenarios MJ was in? Being the focal scorer on his team every single year of his team, taking over 22 FG a game 12 times in his career to LeBron's 1?
They are not simple facts, I already rebutted them. LeBron has always been the focal scorer, don't act like he hasn't
thtat's not what he specialized in though, are u understanding what I'm saying, his game is to dish and THEN score. Hence the 15 seasons averaging over 6 APG
Those who say LeBron is pass-first have no IQ
that's literally what his game comes down to, he is mainly a facilitator ask anyone
you mean ask 12-year old LeBron fans
no real lebron fans that know he is a pass first guy that at the same time can get u 30 on high efficiency that's lebron's game and it's so obvious now that he's on the lakers
he is not a pass first guy. please stop.
He is you idiot literally every normal nba fans know that lebron's main objective is to move the ball and find his teammates and then score. Wake up bruh
Huh? This is a terrible take. Didn't know you actually thought this
your so dumb lmfao
Flu, as a huge LeBron fan I have become to notice he's a pass first player. Someone that prioritizes his offense to getting his teammates involved and passing the ball, his 2nd priority is to score and that's how it's been for years now, young Bron was much different but as he entered his prime years passing become more evident and clear. He loves to pass the ball, and it's frustrating as even a fan because at that 6'8 260 frame why pass the ball? I'm telling you LeBron is a facilitator
MJ is GOAT, its common knowledge
I'm telling you he isn't. He is a score first player and it is plain to see. People compare LeBron to all-time great passers and it is just plain disrespectful
I just can't agree with you on that topic
Agree to disagree then
seems about right
How is le3-6 gonna catch Jordan when he’s already played more than him
That's the most pathetic argument that I've ever heard "bad finals record". I'd rather go 1-10 than 0-0 and that's just my opinion. LeBron doesn't need 7 titles just to beat MJs 6, he doesn't need 6 MVPs just to beat MJs 5. His game speaks for itself, the versatility, invincibility and over complete game. The fact that he'll be top 3 in scoring, top 8 in assists and top 40 in rebounding when it's all said and done amazes me. You talk about MJ playing more games when LeBron is 181 points away from passing him while taking far less shots
It's pretty close on offense, let's be serious they both contain a variety of offense moves but I've never seen Jordan consistently make 30-40 footers on a lightly basis. LeBron also is the greatest driver of all-time and is a much better finisher than Jordan
why can't there be equality smh
This is what a loser says when he realizes the opposing argument is too strong
cuz to say they're equal is a lie
Because MJ is better by a longshot?
not a longshot, but in every category as an nba player, yes. Lebron is good at everything, MJ is best at everything, compared to lbj that is.
lebron is a better shooter than Jordan and a better playmaker. Everything else is in jordan's favor
LeBron is a better passer, rebounder, transition defender, 3pt shooter and statistically better in the clutch so idk what you mean
EXACTLY what I've been saying smh
HE ISNT THAT IS A LIE, JORDAN IS BETTER ON OFFENSE AND DEFENSE
Jordan is a better mid range shooter, and a better player in halfcourt defense. Thats it. Bron is the better 3 point shooter and playmaker and is on par in driving and post play, while also being arguably the best transition shot blocker the NBA has ever seen.
Jordan better blocker, better driver, better finisher
Uhhh. Jordan averaged as many career blocks per game while being smaller and playing a guard position. One of best ever shot blocking guards too. Highlight blocks aren't a factor here. Jordan likely greatest finisher ever, which goes hand in hand with driving. He had a ridiculous ability to finish at the rim.
You gotta consider athleticism now and back then, MJ had a 44 inch vertical and was the fastest on the court, even now LBJ has ab a 38 inch vertical, is one of the fastest, but there's a lot of supernatural athletes on every team now, reason why dunk contest features a lot of random guys like Diallo, Jones Jr, Robinson III. Back then, there weren't a lot of guys like that
oh not the "90s" weren't as athletic shit. pleeeaaaase no
I'm being fr, you didn't really have as many super athletes back then, like don't even act like I'm not right. Once in a blue moon you'd get guys that could jump 40+ inches, now most everyone in the G-league and NBA can jump that
no actually 40-inch verticals are uncommon
not as uncommon as they used to be, Gordon/Hami/Lavine/Robinson/Jones/DSJ all can fly, and many more
Yeah I agree with highlight blocks and shit but Jordan did get most of his blocks on guards 6'5 and under, while LeBron is blocking guys 6'8 and up. I can agree that Jordan had ridiculous layups and an unnatural ability to get the ball up in traffic, but LeBron has only had dunks blocked like 8 times, and just the sheer strength he uses to get to the rack is phenomenal and makes him borderline unstoppable. Oh, and DWade a better blocking guard than MJ tbh
d wade prolly best blocking guard ever. and i can see your point on lebron better driver
Tbh your probably the only MJ defender I can have a realistic debate with.
Yea I mean I try to keep it reasonable. Same with you on the LeBron front, some people just have horrendous opinions but you seem pretty knowledgable
Well I'm tryna be a sports journalist/historian, so I gotta know how to formulate an argument.
W for that
LMFAOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO THIS MAN @theflugame looks ike the message didnt get through
like my ray allen card pls
shit im tryna get back cotd from lok
MJ is the better defender by far and statistically better in clutch
Wrong LeBron has hit more buzzer beaters, on a higher efficiency in the final seconds of playoff games, the most clutch scenario possible
I could list several statistics that show MJ is better if you want. I won't, unless you would like them. However, I also think about Ray Allen and Kyrie Irving...
You mean how LeBron had 16 points in the 4th quarter? How without his performance the spurs win by 15+? Oh and his back-to-back 41 point game performance, 27 point TD in GM7 and chasedown block on Iggy covering the floor in split second? Lmao next
Idgaf about 16 points in 4th quarter. Bottom line is Heat lose if Bosh and Allen don't make that play. In the ultimate clutch situation, he failed- MJ didn't. And how about that rlly clutch defense on KD last 2 finals?
You're not even realizing the facts I'm giving you, this is seriously sad as hell. Without LeBron's performance the game doesn't even become a game, can't u read? Where was KDs defense on LeBron? I don't remember LeBron letting KD drop 51
I realize that. But you don't understand that he failed in the biggest pressure situation. You have to finish the job. LeBron played no defense and was actively trying to switch off KD. And let's not forget when he had a 1-on-1 with Curry with a chance to win the game and decided to pass.
Finish the job with that team against the Warriors? Seriously, not a single player in NBA History could have beaten the Warriors with that squad, let alone taken them to the Finals. Love how talk about passing in the clutch when MJ passed to Kerr and B.J in the playoffs? What is MJ now a pussy too? Your arguments aren't legit at all, you backup your info on someone you never actually sat down everyday to watch
No. You completely missed the point. He was one-on-one with a below-average defender half his size. MJ never passed out of that situation. And I never said he should have won. Just that his defensive efforts were atrocious. One of the biggest knocks I have against him is his complete lack of defensive ability/effort for a large portion of his career. MJ stayed consistent on both sides.
Really because he held his offense match-ups to 34.7% in the 2018 playoffs
because a lot of the time he wasn't guarding them
what the fuck are u talking about, opponent FG% is literally the FG% made when you guard your opponent there is no bending and twisting the stats this time flu
Bleacher Report posted it in the summer of 2018 around June, unless you wanna scroll through that there is no way I can link but it was posted on BR
you're right, but too many michael jordan fans in here... didn't want to upset them... i definitely have LBJ over MJ
I don't have LeBron over MJ I'm just not gonna let people bash him and say invalid things
you flipped the sign buddy, I think it's supposed to be this one "<"
im settling this shit rn
statistically, Jordan played on 5 of the 10 worst finals teams EVER, Bron played on none
Lebron had his ass saved everytime he won it all
Lebron went 3-6, Jordan went 6-0, meaning that Jordan, while playing on 5 of the ten worst finals teams, he still managed to win it all, Lebron, on the other hand, would lose even with extreme help
yeah, he was tons of help
so was Bosh
Lebron won his first ring because, well, they were the Heat, his second ring? He should be greatful for Ray hitting the three to force OT and later Game 7, which the Heat won, because Wade and Bosh.
His third ring? Ever heard of Kyrie Irving?
While Jordan won all of his 6 NBA finals trips, with himself being the main reason why
Lebrons help>Jordans help
and might I add, Jordan never had an NBA finals series that ended in a win or go home game
and Jordan also played in a top heavy league with one of the greatest era's in defense for the league
and HE STILL put up better stats than Lebron
Wow copy paste the dms to me plus what you posted earlier, doesn't settle shit
it does, it invalidates all of your arguments and shows what makes MJ the GOAT
WHO TF IS LEBRON
look him up
I honestly cant put up with this bullshit @LALakers tbh you are a bronsexual in denial of facts, flu could completely debunk your "proof" by himself, I have a life and im not gonna waste it on somebody who cant accept the fact that MJ>LBJ
YOU CANT FUCKING COMPARE THEM. DIFFERENT TIMES DIFFERENT COMPETITION DIFFERENT POSITION/BUILD. THERE TWO DIFFERENT INDIVIDUALS HOP OFF THEIR SACK and onto mine
MJ at 40 years old was MVP candidate against LeBron comp. Shut up please.
Lebron's era has more superstars you can't compare them
That's extremely false. By saying that you show how little hoops knowledge you have. I can't take anyone using that argument seriously.
mj better cry for me
Mine bigger tf?
we still debating this shit?
who cares anymore, nobody is gonna change their mind at this point
because this kid wont realize that MJ is GOAT
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320 comments jesus
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lets just get this straight MJ is better for many reasons
Have you read the comments on here
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LEBRON IS THE GOAT
@theflugame we got another one