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    So lemme get this straight, this guy thinks MJ is goat because he shoots ft with his eyes closed? smh




    Mj never wore a headband, so Bron hands down




    Ima build clout off headband comments on every card, just watch



    Firstly, Jordan played and mostly won championships during an expansion era of the league. Yes, believe it or not, Michael Jordan played during an era where the league was still trying to find its own identity and incorporate different cities of America into the league. Because of this, Jordan played against some of the worst competition the league has ever seen, owning some of the worst records in NBA history that still stand today. During his career, 6 sub .500 teams were added to the league, which in turn, diluted an already inferior talent pool within the early stages of the league development.
    As we’ve already established, the league was still discovering itself and developing during MJ’s career, and as a part of that development, league rules were also a central part of that change. Now, I know what some of you are thinking, but before you start yell “hand checking, hand checking”, keep in mind, Jordan played during a time where the illegal defense rule existed. This is massive because hand checking is really nothing in comparison. The magnitude of the rule doesn’t compare to the significance of the illegal defense. Without the ability to play a zone defense or anything close to it, defensive schemes were less elaborate and teams were unable to send or even show multiple bodies at stars. Can you imagine a league nowadays in which superstars were left with single man coverages? That was the reality. Can you imagine players like Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Carmelo Anthony, Kevin Durant etc being able to basically go one-on-one with a defender who has been left there on an island with no hope in stopping them? It’s crazy when you think about that now in that light. Can you imagine some of the numbers the more modern superstars could have put up with that luxury.
    Since the rule was implemented, players such as Kobe Bryant, Tracy McGrady and Carmelo Anthony have all stated if they had to change one rule in the NBA, it would be eliminating the zone defense, which would enable them to be able to fully showcase their offensive talent one-on-one with a defender. MJ had that particular luxury that other scorers didn’t. Another notable rule change is the “best of 5” instead of the “best of 7” playoff series we are accustomed to today. Furthermore, other rule changes include the three-point line being a whole foot closer to the basket for a duration of time. As Jordan was being defeated and beat up by the Bad Boy Pistons, the league looked at and started to implement the punishment for over physical fouls and plays in general, which aided Jordan’s game. This is why when asked about Jordan, Wilt Chamberlin once said “Just remember (Michael), when you played, they changed the rules to make it easier for you to dominate…when I played, they changed the rules to make it harder for me”.
    You’d think that if the assumption Jordan played in a better era the numbers would back that up, right? Well they in fact do the opposite. Major stats taken across the board for the duration of his career indicate that Jordan did in fact play in an inferior era to today’s game. The overall Points Per game average was higher despite the fast-paced, more possessions per game we experience today. The Field Goals Made per game was higher, Field Goals attempted across the board were higher on average again despite the supreme pace we see night in and night out nowadays. The overall Field Goal Percentage was also higher. All in all, saving you some reading time, advanced stats are also not favorable. Not to mention basically everything that has to do with outside shooting, the three-point line and overall efficiency being better today.
    This is obvious, but simply put – individual and overall defense were less advanced when Jordan played. I often hear people claiming Jordan “would average 50 in this era”, but let’s be real, he wouldn’t average 50 (no one could do that), and even if he did average a high points per game average, it would be down to the increased pace and more possessions, not because the defenses or defensive players are worse now, because they’re not.
    Defensive schemes were extremely simplistic compared to the modern NBA era, and as we’ve established, the rules during this period were a major factor. Defensive knowledge and implementation was significantly worse, with teams not really taking away what other teams or stars liked to do on any given night. Double-teaming, triple-teaming and trapping were non-existent, play calls were less elaborate, timeouts were used less effectively, and the entire tactical side of the game was worlds away from what it is now. The game was definitely more physical but being more physical does in no way shape or form mean the defense was better, because it wasn’t.
    It’s no secret Jordan destroyed the competition, but it’s very interesting when they praise Jordan for dominating, but discredit today’s competition in comparison. It’s interesting because what people fail to realise is that Jordan played in the 90s version of the Golden State Warriors that we see tear apart the league today. Jordan’s Bulls were absolutely the equivalent in their era. Of course both teams were built and constructed differently, but their dominance and status were the same. Jordan played under the arguably the greatest coach we’ve ever seen in Phil Jackson, with one of the best two way players we’ve ever seen in Scottie Pippen who was an MVP caliber talent, a supreme bunch of role players who were specialist shooters in a time where there were much less than now in Steve Kerr, BJ Armstrong, Toni Kukoc, Craig Hodges and John Paxson, and the greatest rebounder and maybe defender ever in Dennis Rodman. This isn’t to mention other great pieces but you get the point – the overall competition was less and Jordan played in arguably the most dominant team the league has ever seen. Unlike other superstars, Jordan never faced a team in the playoffs or NBA Finals that had a better team or head coach than he did.
    We’ve already spoken about competition, and the lack thereof, but let’s go a little deeper with this. We live in the golden age of guards nowadays in the NBA, and when you really think about it, not only was the guard position not as strong during MJ’s career, the lack of competition and talent was awful in comparison. When Jordan retired, the Bulls won only two less games the next season, Scottie Pippen was arguably the MVP and the Bulls were a play or call away from going to another NBA Finals, all WITHOUT Jordan. This speaks volumes on both the lack of overall competition, and further evidence of how good and well-coached those Bulls teams were. If competition was as high as people perceive it was, it wouldn’t be possible to lose the best player in the game and remain nearly identical through the regular season as well as knocking on the door for another NBA Finals.
    Jordan’s direct competition was also poor. If you think about the players that actually had to check him one-on-one, besides a couple of exceptions the resistance was minimal and laughable in hindsight. I mean, players like Jeff Hornacek and Reggie Miller, really? One of Jordan’s most famous shots ever was over the Cavaliers’ Craig Elho. Elho himself said that moment made him more famous than anything he ever did on the floor and it’s true. Jordan went against Karl Malone and John Stockton in their later years yes, but neither of them were directly checking him, nor can anyone realistically name another person off the top of their head on that roster that was worth mentioning alongside Stockton and Malone. Jordan even went against Gary Payton (who is listed at 6”4’ but isn’t close to that), and Payton actually played him the best out of anyone before getting hurt.
    I’m not saying Jordan played against no one, but the overall competition is definitely diluted and misjudged for that period of time. People forget that arguably the two greatest ever defenders actually played alongside Jordan instead of guarding him. He never had to put buckets on Dennis Rodman or Scottie Pippen when it matters most or when a ring was on the line, they were right there next to him in the same jersey. Furthermore, people claim the East is bad nowadays but have quickly forgotten how bad it was at times in those days as well. The 85/86 Bulls went 30-52 and made the playoffs, the 90-91 New York Knicks went 39-43 and made the playoffs, but the 15/16 Bulls go 40-42 missing out on the playoffs, just one of many comparisons that can be made during that time.
    We haven’t even discussed the continued globalization of the league which increased the talent pool and competition across the world over time, especially with the European players. Or even dived into the ability and opportunity of generations to learn off the past and better the present.
    All in all it’s actually systematically and fundamentally impossible for any professional sport to get worse over time. That’s not opinion that’s just science and the evolution of the game and professional sports in general. I believe it’s hard for the older generation of basketball “greats” to accept and understand, and it’s a reason why they’re quick to discredit and judge the modern NBA player, but it is what it is.
    Michael Jordan is absolutely a basketball icon and will forever remain that way, but there are some myths that are alive and thought of as undeniable fact which shouldn’t be the case. This is one of them. The truth is, Michael Jordan played in a less advanced and developed time in basketball, and it’s ok to acknowledge it.


    Wanna be all stats? Jordan played on 5 of the 10 worst finals teams ever, statistically, LeBron has played on none of them. So before you scream “bron had no help” stfu.


    Bro... come on dude... 2008 Cavs that LBJ carried, did he have help? Jordan deadass had the 90s Kawhi on his team, with a semi-modern team with guards who could shoot the 3. He'd later add the premier 6-man of the NBA at that point (Toni Kukoc), as well as Dennis Rodman and had consistent centers who could pull down boards, i stg Luc Longley gets no love cuz of their big 3. BJ Armstrong went to the 3 point contest, and Steve Kerr shot at the 2nd-most efficient clip from 3. Not to mention John Paxson was no pushover at the arc


    You have no argument lmfao, Cavs had more help statically, it’s just Jordan was a god compared to LeBron lmao


    Im not even advocating LBJ, im just saying that doesn't mean much lmao. I already gave my belief on a previous post that they're equal due to eras and positions


    Again, 5 of the 10 worst teams belonged to Jordan


    That don't mean shit man, it just means modern finals teams are better statistically. Numbers create facts in certain instances, but those analytics get outdated year by year, its like saying Larry Bird, and Reggie Miller are better shooters than Klay and Curry cuz they showed range back then


    You’re argument is futile you irrelevant being


    Stfu stu im ur fuckin dad. have an argument with me and stop being a bitch. Gimme a fucking paragraph, prove me wrong, leave me speechless




    aye, thats abusive, u know damn well i aint no jew, lemme read it


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    there's a paragrapgh for you buddy


    I hate bron fans, they are so dumb. If you don’t have insta, get it, and if you already have it, look at @mjs_goat on Instagram and you will soon realize the argument for LeBron is futile and at its very core a disgusting attempt to unthrone the real king of nba history.



    Lmfao, maybe the league was top heavy, you ever think about that. Jordan’s Bulls defeated 7 60-win teams (a record for a decade) and 20 teams that had between 50-59 wins in the playoffs. 27 of Jordan’s 37 playoff opponents had 50+ wins, while 18 of Brons 37 playoff appearances are against 50+ win teams. Jordan was guarded by Defensive Player of Year players in the playoffs several times – Sidney Moncrief, Alvin Robertson, Dennis Rodman and Gary Payton. (Rodman four times)
    And don’t go for this ridiculous “Jordan never played against a zone” argument. First of all, Jordan was an MVP candidate at age 38 before his knee injury and it was against the legalized zone when he averaged 25.1 pts, 6.2 rebounds and 5.3 assists. Only Tracy McGrady averaged 25-6-5 that year in 2002.


    Playoff game-winners/tie-ers with 24 seconds or less
    – Jordan 9/18 (50%)
    – LeBron 8/23 (35%)

    Playoff game-winners/tie-ers with 25 seconds or less
    – Jordan 10/19 (53%)
    – LeBron 8/23 (35%)

    Finals game-winners/tie-ers with 25 seconds or less
    – Jordan 4/8 (50%)
    – LeBron 0/6 (0%)

    Oops LeBron = choke god


    LeBron James turns the ball over way too many times at critical junctures in games. He has two playoff games with 10 turnovers and has 177 turnovers in the Finals compared to 99 for Michael Jordan.

    LeBron James led both teams in turnovers in 2017 (22), 2016 (31), 2014 (19), and 2011 (24). He was his team’s turnover leader every time except in 2012.



    Michael Jordan takes over games and is able to lift his team when needed

    1993 East Finals and The 1993 Finals were great examples of this. In the East Finals against New York, the Knicks had the Bulls reeling until Jordan was able to score 54 against them in Game 4, then a total team effort ended New York’s 27 game home winning streak.

    In the 1993 Finals, Game 6 looked like a lost cause as the entire Bulls team, minus Jordan went cold. Jordan scored all nine points in the 4th to keep the Bulls in it and then was able to get his open teammates involved to win the game on John Paxson’s three. Watch the footage on the bench. It was Jordan keeping everyone together, telling everyone not to panic.

    LeBron James has great difficulty showing up in the 4th quarter of tight games, especially in the Finals. When his teams hit adversity, he disappears many times, something we never saw from Jordan. Leaders don’t disappear when they’re needed the most. (more on this below)

    Besides this past year LeBron is a playoff choker


    “Last season, Jordan had to overcome the harassment of zone traps and double and triple-teaming”
    – New York Times, 1987

    “They`ve used zone traps; they`ve put two, three and sometimes four defenders on him”
    – Chicago Tribune, 1987

    “My concerns are that more teams are going to the trap, ‘which ultimately ends in a zone defense… I noticed that Chicago has adopted a half-court that L.A. has been using so successfully and it ended up in a zone defense”

    ‘When you play New York, you have to prepare yourself because they have so many different traps.”
    – Chuck Daly, 1988

    You saying all these people lied?


    Nov. 11, 1984 vs. Indiana, 118-116
    12-footer with four seconds left.

    Dec. 7, 1984 vs. New York, 95-93
    18-footer with five seconds left.

    March 26, 1985 vs. Indiana, 120-119
    Two free throws with five seconds left.

    April 24, 1985 vs. Milwaukee, 109-107
    Jordan nails the eventual game-winning jumper from the corner with 22 seconds left on the clock to force Game 4 in the first round of the 1985 Playoffs against Milwaukee.
    917k avi | QuickTime

    Oct. 25, 1985 vs. Cleveland, 116-115
    Jordan is at the line to win the game against the Cavs. He misses the first, but drains number two for the victory.
    937k avi | QuickTime

    Nov. 11, 1986 vs. Atlanta, 112-110
    Jordan drives through traffic to the basket and manages to sink the tough layup with nine ticks left, skidding out of bounds after the shot.
    892k avi | QuickTime

    Nov. 21, 1986 vs. New York, 101-99
    Michael Jordan Jordan scores the last 18 of the Bulls' points, including the final two for the win on a running 18-footer with one second remaining to down the Knicks 101-99.
    926k avi | QuickTime

    Feb. 12, 1988 vs. Milwaukee, 95-93
    Terry Cummings sends Jordan to the floor with the hard foul, but Jordan exacts revenge by coolly dropping in both free throws with two ticks left for a Chicago victory.
    904k avi | QuickTime

    April 3, 1988 vs. Detroit, 112-110
    Two free throws with four seconds left.

    April 15, 1988 vs. New Jersey, 100-99
    Jordan rises and strokes the jumper over Mike O'Koren with 20 seconds left to down the Nets in New Jersey.
    443k avi | QuickTime

    Feb. 16, 1989 vs. Milwaukee, 117-116
    20-footer with one second left.

    May 7, 1989 vs. Cleveland, 101-100
    Michael Jordan "The Shot." It's the reason Cleveland fans will never forgive Jordan, as this shot at the buzzer won Game 5 and the series for Chicago in the first round of the 1989 Playoffs.
    1.01m avi | QuickTime

    May 19, 1989 vs. New York, 113-111
    After Trent Tucker's four-point play tied Game 6 of the 1989 Eastern Conference Semifinals at 111, Jordan stepped to the free throw line and iced the series with two freebies with four seconds left.
    966k avi | QuickTime

    May 27, 1989 vs. Detroit, 99-97
    With future teammate Dennis Rodman guarding him in Game 3 of the 1989 Eastern Conference Finals, Jordan wins the game for the Bulls with the pull-up jumper with three seconds left.
    919k avi | QuickTime

    Nov. 13, 1990 vs. Utah, 84-82
    As time runs out, Jordan creates some space for the shot over Thurl Bailey and Jeff Malone, downing the Jazz on their homecourt with the 15-footer.
    1.12m avi | QuickTime

    Jan. 22, 1992 vs. Charlotte, 115-112
    Jordan picks up the loose ball in Charlotte and runs the length of the court for the layup, drawing the foul and completing the three-point play for a three-point Chicago victory.
    928k avi | QuickTime

    Nov. 11, 1992 vs. Detroit, 98-96 (OT)
    Michael Jordan Jordan victimizes the Detroit Pistons, draining the long range three-pointer at the buzzer for a 98-96 win in overtime.
    1.07m avi | QuickTime

    May 17, 1993 vs. Cleveland, 103-101
    "The Shot -- Part Two," Jordan does it to the Cavs again, this time victimizing Gerald Wilkins with the jumper to win Game 4 of the 1993 Eastern Conference Semifinals in Cleveland.
    922k avi | QuickTime

    March 25, 1995 vs. Atlanta, 99-98
    Jordan, fresh from his return from baseball, brings the ball up the court and drains the jumper over Steve Smith to drop the Hawks in Atlanta.
    1.05m avi | QuickTime

    Feb. 11, 1997 vs. Charlotte, 103-100
    Michael is at it again - this time he connects on the clutch jumper from downtown to lift the Bulls to a 103-100 victory over the gritty visitors from Charlotte.
    974k avi | QuickTime

    March 18, 1997 vs. Seattle, 89-87 (OT)
    With the Sonics battling the Bulls in OT, Gary Payton fouls Jordan on the jumper with eight seconds remaining. Jordan goes to the line, sinking both free throws to shut down Seattle.
    877k avi | QuickTime

    June 1, 1997 vs. Utah, 84-82
    Michael Jordan puts his cape on to perform the heroics again, when he drains the jumper as the buzzer goes off giving the Bulls a 84-82 victory and a 1-0 lead in the series.
    1.07m avi | QuickTime

    February 13, 1998 vs. Atlanta, 112-110
    Michael Jordan Michael Jordan comes through in the clutch yet again, pulling up to drain the game-winning buzzer-beating jumper over Atlanta's Steve Smith and Chucky Brown.
    854k avi | QuickTime

    March 22, 1998 vs. Toronto, 102-100
    MJ does it again, nailing the short fadeaway jumper from the right wing with five seconds left, lifting the Bulls to victory.

    June 14, 1998 vs. Utah, 87-86
    Michael Jordan knocks down the clutch game-clinching jumper with 5.2 seconds remaining in the game and the Bulls beat Utah 87-86 in Game 6 of the 1998 NBA Finals for their sixth NBA title.
    1.02m avi | QuickTime

    Every single game winner in Jordan’s career


    Again, I think they're both equal. I'm not taking a side, but Jordan and James deserve equal respect. Also I ain't finna copy and paste facts cuz this shit aint deep at all. Lebron's one choke job was 2011, I'll give u that MJ hasn't choked in the Finals. But MJ's fallen before hitting the finals, especially early in his career until his team added serious talent, and Phil Jackson took the reins.

    Turnovers mostly occur due to higher defensive pressure and higher athleticism. I'll give you that James turns it over way too often, but you gotta admit players now a days move way differently from back then.

    The whole takeover thing goes both ways, again LBJ's only choke job was that 2011 series besides that he's turned up to give his teams finals berths. In that 2008 run I believe he had scored 25 points consecutively to push his team past the Pistons. In 2013 before the Ray Allen 3 LBJ scored 13 of the last 16 points to comeback and win the game, which ultimately decided the series. Also, that dude literally came back 3-1 against the best team in the league and led both teams in Points, Rebounds, Assists, Steals and Blocks. You realize Jordan never faced a team like that right? Again I think they're equal.

    The zone thing is literally not an argument, defense is defense. Play schemes get more advanced every year, and obviously now they're state of the art. I have nothing to say on that.

    Again, stop arguing whose better, they're both gods of basketball. Give them their credit, idc who u think is best but don't downplay a man whose accomplished the unthinkable.


    Phil Jackson was nowhere near the reason, and Jordan struggled against the Pistons early because Pippen was choking in those series. MJ averaged at least 28 PPG in every series he played against the Pistons. LeBron choked in 2009 in the East Finals against Orlando when every9ne expected him to get through and play Kobe, and he also choked in the 2014 Finals, shooting horribly when Kawhi would guard him, and the 2008 East Semis against the Celtics, where LeBrons Cavs were favored. Again, LeBron is 0/6 on shots to take the lead or tie the game with 25 seconds or less in the nba finals, and despite what many believe, that Bron hits every clutch playoff shot, LeBron is only 10/25 in the playoffs on clutch shots, compared to Jordan’s 10/19 (in less games).

    Defensive pressure was higher in Jordan’s day, the whole “Jordan never played against zone” argument is extremely flawed, there are several liable sources supporting facts that Jordan played immense defensive pressure. Jordan also had top defenders guarding him that played his position throughout his career, whether it be Sidney Moncrief, Gary Payton, Alvin Robertson, and he was even guarded by Dennis Rodman in the playoffs for 4 seperate series. Obviously Bron is more athletic, which should make it even worse that he’s such a turnover machine, despite being strong enough and fast enough to keep the ball away from defenders. Players now are more athletic, but LeBron isn’t playing against better defenders or defenses for that matter that MJ was. And when LeBron has gone against top defenders, (which he rarely does, his primary defender against Dallas was J.J. Barea) such as Kawhi, he has shot horribly from the field and been clamped several times. Look at his finals victories, (guarded by KD, A less experienced Kawhi, Andre Iguodala [remember he shot horribly from the field this series]) and who was guarding him when he lost the finals (a much better KD 2x, Bruce Bowen, More experienced Kawhi, J.J. Barea, Andre Iguodala) LeBron has never won a series where his primary defender was actually all-defense level.

    Jordan may have never faced a team like the Warriors, but we shouldn’t insult his legacy and act like he wasn’t the reason the Bulls WERE the Warriors of the 1990s, despite not having as much talent as the Warriors of today. Jordan single handedly carried a patchwork offense with only one truly helpful scorer on his offense. The teams he played were all superior to teams Bron played against (The Jazz with Stockton and Malone, Suns with Kevin Johnson and Charles Barkley, Lakers with MVP candidate Magic, Blazers with Clyde) so although Bron has played his toughest opponent currently, overall he’s faced easier competition. Another thing, MJ had to get through a far superior East to reach the Finals, and is still a better finals performer than LeBron despite LeBron always having rest heading into the Finals.

    They may both be gods of basketball, but calling them 1a and 1b is just retarded. Jordan is clearly a more talented player despite having less natural abilities and god given talent and is a harder worker and competition than Bron ever was. Jordan is the greatest 2-way player ever while Bron has given up on defense, Jordan is the greatest scorer and on-ball defender ever, and just because you know you can’t prove Bron is better doesn’t mean they’re equal. Just accept it, if forced to pick one MJ is the right answer, and LeBron will NEVER. EVER be the GOAT.


    Game winners are cool, a difference of 4 shots doesn't really indicate much, but again I dont think either is better than the other. Stop hating on a grown man that shit homo


    That took a while to type I bet


    It doesn’t take long to type command C