By Damian »
508G37 said in Wednesday, May 30th, 2018 1:25 am

3-6

2007 NBA Finals: 22 year old LeBron James + role players

2015 NBA Finals: LeBron James without Kevin Love & Kyrie Irving 

2017 NBA Finals: it is debatebale but nobody showed up in the 4th in all 5 games but LeBron

2018 NBA Finals: not decided

By StarGazer131 »

he's great, he's amazing.

he's made it to the finals again and again, that is great. (of course when you talk about these in GOAT discussions you take the context but for now let's take it at face value in terms of being great)

he's made crazy averages for someone his age that anyone can point to and say he's amazing

he made himself a distinct legacy when in regards to how much he's done

for these reasons it is reasonable for any person taking these things at face value to call him the GOAT, it's sort of something taken in the moment for people to say, "This is why he's better than MJ!"

but let me tell you some reasons that he is not great:

1. 2011 is the worse nba star fall off a player can have. Period. People try to reduce this to one bad series, but it is so much worse than that. "He didn't show up" would describe Kobe's 2004. 2011 is. So. Much. Worse. It became apparent that Wade had to be emotional support for LeBron the next seasons in order for the team to be most successful. People who point to his stats and say "It really wasn't all that bad!" only proves to show how people nowadays disregard what happened. His play in those games completely legitimized his nickname LeChoke at that time. You can make a good argmuent to how LeBron also didn't show up in 2013 until the second half of the game 6, as well as people questioning LeBron's stats in 2014 and 2017 and their impact that stans look at and say 'negates his losses.' 2016 was an amazing comeback, that is true! But people easily forget how the momentum changed entirely when draymond was suspended and bogut was injured.

2. He chases legacy. This is apparent, all of these accomplishments he looks to take because he chases the "ghost in Boston." You may think that this is all right, but this has led to situations where he is trying to prove himself too much, something that LeStans point to. He's great, look at his stats! They are the effect of elevating his own play at the expense of others; he is ball dominant, albeit the greatest amongst players who are limited in what they can play. He's played 82 games! He walks up and down the court on both ends the most, his minutes are overrated, his defense is subpar, and this comes after the nba made it easier on nba athletes because they made the schedule easier on all teams. That is not a shot at players today or the nba, that is simply taking something in context. His case for MVP this year is simply overrated.  Look at his elimination games!!! Again, a ball dominant player like him raises his own play at the expense of making his teammates play a certain way. Luckily, his teammates push themselves out of desperation instead of 'smart play' by LeBron, Lebron assumingly ALWAYS plays 'smart' to eveyone because 'that's what he does with the ball in his hands.' But this is wrong, which I detail in post I have, Lebron's Over Reliance is Overrated.

3. Doesn't create a good mentality in the locker room. When you are in the locker room with LeBron, you'd think being with the best player in the world create a sense of ease. I mean, many players on the team just "catch and shoot" once Lebron passes to them right? Why would they feel threatened there? Well, this season it is apparent that things in the locker room have been heated. Other than his off court decisions that show that he is willing to do anything to win, which is thus included making his LeGM decisions. Players who have played with LeBron always talk about how difficult it is to play with him after they leave hime. Kyrie suspected that LeBron threw shade at him declaring how he need a playmaker, aka trade for cp3, and how he wanted to trade him for bledsoe or pg3 later. it and crowder openly state that they are glad to play in an actual system, including kyrie, instead of Lebron playground style of ball. LeBron has to take away from others in order to better himself. You may think this may have no effect on court, but there are too many decisions in the game of basketball that are made of in the spur of the moment to not be affected by stuff in the back of your head. That is one of the reasons why his teammates are so inconsistent, why they play great only at certain times. People point to that and say that is why Lebron is great, his teammmates are shit! but 3 dimensional thinkers actually consider the factors WHY they are shit, WHY they are inconsistent. outside of the kardasian effect of thompson, every other player is thinking of how they are under LeBron's scrutiny.

LeBron James is a phenomonal player, but he has to be a phenomonal player in his way. He needs to fully manifest his own style of play, otherwise he has a mental breakdown because he's so unsure of how to play. Yes this may be successful this playoffs and got him to the finals, but look at what he went through. 7 games against the pacers??? A sweep against the raptors, who we all know LeBron was going to plow through because of DeFrozen and Low-Key and Dwane Casey not being able to make defensive assignments. 7 games against a team that is led by everyone's standards as a overrated all star and a bunch of young'uns because their two best stars being injured, who lost basically because of inexperience, a completely valid argument. People only point to his overwhelming physical dominance that the new people can point to and say "they've never seen that before," he is physically dominant! Well, that would put him under the category with Shaq and Wilt. People are in the moment, that's why you still hear Kobe in GOAT discussions, he looked great IN THE MOMENT and that has produced recency bias. I don't consider Kobe GOAT, but his play, attitude, intangibles point to me a player who may not be the greatest, but displays hard work to better himself the right way. People point to that to say he's GOAT, although that is wrong. That is the same here with LeBron.

By StarGazer131 »
Mamba_ said in Wednesday, May 30th, 2018 3:55 am

2007 NBA Finals: 22 year old LeBron James + role players

2015 NBA Finals: LeBron James without Kevin Love & Kyrie Irving 

2017 NBA Finals: it is debatebale but nobody showed up in the 4th in all 5 games but LeBron

2018 NBA Finals: not decided

so 4 out of his 6 finals are justified.... okay then...

By Damian »
StarGazer131 said in Wednesday, May 30th, 2018 5:06 am

he's great, he's amazing.

he's made it to the finals again and again, that is great. (of course when you talk about these in GOAT discussions you take the context but for now let's take it at face value in terms of being great)

he's made crazy averages for someone his age that anyone can point to and say he's amazing

he made himself a distinct legacy when in regards to how much he's done

for these reasons it is reasonable for any person taking these things at face value to call him the GOAT, it's sort of something taken in the moment for people to say, "This is why he's better than MJ!"

but let me tell you some reasons that he is not great:

1. 2011 is the worse nba star fall off a player can have. Period. People try to reduce this to one bad series, but it is so much worse than that. "He didn't show up" would describe Kobe's 2004. 2011 is. So. Much. Worse. It became apparent that Wade had to be emotional support for LeBron the next seasons in order for the team to be most successful. People who point to his stats and say "It really wasn't all that bad!" only proves to show how people nowadays disregard what happened. His play in those games completely legitimized his nickname LeChoke at that time. You can make a good argmuent to how LeBron also didn't show up in 2013 until the second half of the game 6, as well as people questioning LeBron's stats in 2014 and 2017 and their impact that stans look at and say 'negates his losses.' 2016 was an amazing comeback, that is true! But people easily forget how the momentum changed entirely when draymond was suspended and bogut was injured.

2. He chases legacy. This is apparent, all of these accomplishments he looks to take because he chases the "ghost in Boston." You may think that this is all right, but this has led to situations where he is trying to prove himself too much, something that LeStans point to. He's great, look at his stats! They are the effect of elevating his own play at the expense of others; he is ball dominant, albeit the greatest amongst players who are limited in what they can play. He's played 82 games! He walks up and down the court on both ends the most, his minutes are overrated, his defense is subpar, and this comes after the nba made it easier on nba athletes because they made the schedule easier on all teams. That is not a shot at players today or the nba, that is simply taking something in context. His case for MVP this year is simply overrated.  Look at his elimination games!!! Again, a ball dominant player like him raises his own play at the expense of making his teammates play a certain way. Luckily, his teammates push themselves out of desperation instead of 'smart play' by LeBron, Lebron assumingly ALWAYS plays 'smart' to eveyone because 'that's what he does with the ball in his hands.' But this is wrong, which I detail in post I have, Lebron's Over Reliance is Overrated.

3. Doesn't create a good mentality in the locker room. When you are in the locker room with LeBron, you'd think being with the best player in the world create a sense of ease. I mean, many players on the team just "catch and shoot" once Lebron passes to them right? Why would they feel threatened there? Well, this season it is apparent that things in the locker room have been heated. Other than his off court decisions that show that he is willing to do anything to win, which is thus included making his LeGM decisions. Players who have played with LeBron always talk about how difficult it is to play with him after they leave hime. Kyrie suspected that LeBron threw shade at him declaring how he need a playmaker, aka trade for cp3, and how he wanted to trade him for bledsoe or pg3 later. it and crowder openly state that they are glad to play in an actual system, including kyrie, instead of Lebron playground style of ball. LeBron has to take away from others in order to better himself. You may think this may have no effect on court, but there are too many decisions in the game of basketball that are made of in the spur of the moment to not be affected by stuff in the back of your head. That is one of the reasons why his teammates are so inconsistent, why they play great only at certain times. People point to that and say that is why Lebron is great, his teammmates are shit! but 3 dimensional thinkers actually consider the factors WHY they are shit, WHY they are inconsistent. outside of the kardasian effect of thompson, every other player is thinking of how they are under LeBron's scrutiny.

LeBron James is a phenomonal player, but he has to be a phenomonal player in his way. He needs to fully manifest his own style of play, otherwise he has a mental breakdown because he's so unsure of how to play. Yes this may be successful this playoffs and got him to the finals, but look at what he went through. 7 games against the pacers??? A sweep against the raptors, who we all know LeBron was going to plow through because of DeFrozen and Low-Key and Dwane Casey not being able to make defensive assignments. 7 games against a team that is led by everyone's standards as a overrated all star and a bunch of young'uns because their two best stars being injured, who lost basically because of inexperience, a completely valid argument. People only point to his overwhelming physical dominance that the new people can point to and say "they've never seen that before," he is physically dominant! Well, that would put him under the category with Shaq and Wilt. People are in the moment, that's why you still hear Kobe in GOAT discussions, he looked great IN THE MOMENT and that has produced recency bias. I don't consider Kobe GOAT, but his play, attitude, intangibles point to me a player who may not be the greatest, but displays hard work to better himself the right way. People point to that to say he's GOAT, although that is wrong. That is the same here with LeBron.

not reading that lmao 

By Damian »
By paulius186 »

choker 3-6

By West_Wolf_Baller05 »

he is just a bad player because he just is

By Damian »
paulius186 said in Wednesday, May 30th, 2018 16:32 pm

choker 3-6

2007 NBA Finals: 22 year old LeBron James + role players

2015 NBA Finals: LeBron James without Kevin Love & Kyrie Irving 

2017 NBA Finals: it is debatebale but nobody showed up in the 4th in all 5 games but LeBron

2018 NBA Finals: not decided

By Damian »
By paulius186 »
Mamba_ said in Wednesday, May 30th, 2018 16:34 pm

2007 NBA Finals: 22 year old LeBron James + role players

2015 NBA Finals: LeBron James without Kevin Love & Kyrie Irving 

2017 NBA Finals: it is debatebale but nobody showed up in the 4th in all 5 games but LeBron

2018 NBA Finals: not decided

how is 18 not decided lol